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The Now-Defunct Firms Behind 8chan, QAnon

krebsonsecurity.com

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Re: The Now-Defunct Firms Behind 8chan, QAnon

#141
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're likely right about the mask. I would give the guy weird looks because of his lack of consideration for others, not because I fear a crazed killer. That said, your experience with Q is not universal. There are many people who take it much, much more seriously than you do and have alienated friends and family members and lost jobs as a result. And, of course, fired a gun in a pizza shop, shot and killed protesto…

The “casual followers” of conspiracy theories aren’t doing anybody any good. They’re just increasing the spread of the disinformation. This stuff needs to be fought, refuted, and relegated to the dustbin of history. “casual following” is the sort of thing that lets this win a place in the core of public discourse and culture.

Something for historical consideration is that - if we just go full Godwin's law here: in Nazi Germany, most citizens were just "casual followers" of anti-semitism.

You don't have to be gung ho to let someone ELSE do something horrible. You just have to be just on-board enough to let them sit in the driver's seat.

Re: The Now-Defunct Firms Behind 8chan, QAnon

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see two issues with what you're saying. First, it's not just that some rich people are pedophiles. It's called a conspiracy theory for a reason - there's conspiring going on. The CEO of the Ritz knows that his hotels offer underage prostitutes. The personal concierge directs the CEO to club which is known to be "good for rich people." The club owner knows that the company they outsource to for renting table dancers…

> First, it's not just that some rich people are pedophiles. It's called a conspiracy theory for a reason - there's conspiring going on. The CEO of the Ritz knows that his hotels offer underage prostitutes. The personal concierge directs the CEO to club which is known to be "good for rich people." The club owner knows that the company they outsource to for renting table dancers on the weekends also has dancers doing…

> And? Is the claim made more meaningful by these specifics?

Yes? It's a different claim. Somebody doing X and a culture where many people turn a blind eye to and enable X aren't the same thing.

> People who regularly meet and discuss things are aligned on the part that counts. They might not be organized, but they're definitely aligned

We're talking about forums on the internet. Are you an I "aligned" because we had this discussion here?

Also, please do respond to my edit. I'm still pretty clueless as to the better way to work the problem of powerful people turning a blind eye to and enabling lawbreaking by other powerful people other than just talking about it.

Re: The Now-Defunct Firms Behind 8chan, QAnon

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goodness! Someone else who remembers LUE. It's refreshing that someone else has noticed the repetitive cycle of the Internet. There were white supremacists taking advantage of usenet from the beginning. "Sunlight is the best disinfectant" is useless pablum to someone like me who has seen the same people acting in bad faith pushing the most pernicious ideas on each communication platform that comes and goes for decade…

So, the banning worked. There is no opinions you don't like on the internet anymore? And all the reporting and exposure from protesters and activists, and portrayals in media aka sunshine. Hasn't reduced racism and gender bigotry over last 50 years. I've been alive 50 years. Everything is better now than in the 70s 80s or 90s. There are louder fringers, amplified by internet et al. But, society at large has, is, and…

> So, the banning worked. There is no opinions you don't like on the internet anymore?

The "exodus" events were never about silencing __opinions__. They were about destroying __actions__.

In the case of 4chan and Gamergate, the Gamergaters were constantly Doxxing people and Swatting people online. Because these doxxing events and swatting events have mostly stopped, I can absolutely say that it was a success.

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In the case of GameFAQs LUEsers, it was a matter of "mods are asleep, post pornography" on child-friendly sections of the site (Like Pokemon and whatnot). Large scale coordinated efforts to troll and harass.

That behavior largely stopped once LUE was silenced. Everyone agreed that free-speech was important, but not when that speech was used to disrupt and destroy the community. (IE: Coordinating widespread trolling efforts).

Twitter, Facebook, and other mainstream sites are finally coming to terms with this reality. Heck, even Reddit had its exodus events when it banned /r/TheFappening, /r/jailbait, /r/WatchPeopleDie, /r/CreepShots, and other groups.

Everyone is for freedom of speech, but the line is drawn at obviously abusive behavior. And guess what? Banning those communities works. People stopped making /r/CreepShots when the community was banned.

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Success? Yes. In every instance. Limited albeit: it forced the trolls and /r/CreepShot groups off the site and into worser corners of the internet. But it absolutely curtailed the growth of these communities.

Its a limited success, but one that has clearly worked. More so than naïve hopes of "engaging in debate" with these deplorables. Debate works on reasonable people. But when people decide to be unreasonable, you must enact stricter actions. An exodus event should never be taken lightly, and should only be used as a last resort.

The new webmasters would accept the nomadic group (ie: LUEsers went to Something Awful IIRC), but when their toxic behavior became apparent, the exodus continued (ie: to 4Chan, and then finally to 8chan today).

I'm no "internet historian": there are other people who have far better understanding of how these groups moved about. But from my casual perspective, the pattern of "harass -> banning -> exodus to new website -> harassment -> banning" is cyclical and almost predictable.

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Under no circumstances have I ever seen "debate" actually work to fix the poor behavior of a group. Absolutely never. Period. When a group has reached "critical trolling mass", its no longer about debate, but about harassment, and online intimidation. When you move in to try to engage in a friendly debate, they'll work to release your IP address, your phone number, your Facebook accounts... and harass you in the real world (and may even start Swatting you).

Re: The Now-Defunct Firms Behind 8chan, QAnon

#144
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on who you are on what you define as hate. The sites both have a very clear political preference. And both are harsh towards the other. But the chans due to the way the work have less of a vendetta style activism and mostly ignore or ridicule outsiders. There's some rough language - I would say on average the chans are certainly more direct and less signaling, but the lows are pretty equal for both sites.…

One regularly talks about killing Jews and one doesn't.

Twitter does all the time, just with a different target. Someone even set up a satirical subreddit to take all the hateful messages posted on Twitter and replacing "white/men/etc" with "jews" just to prove the point.

https://old.reddit.com/r/menkampf

Re: The Now-Defunct Firms Behind 8chan, QAnon

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way to attack it effectively now is to get transparent [...] I think you're right. Looney theories flourish when authorities are perceived to lack credibility. It's little wonder that politicians of any persuasion are popular focal points for such doubt; either because they are known habitual liars or because they are simply perceived as such by those on the other side. Transparency and blind justice are k…

> If Jeffery Epstein hadn't received preferential treatment when he was convicted in 2008, I think few would remember him today (much less harbor so many suspicions about what politicians may have been involved with him.) The Epstein saga, I think, is providing the most fuel for the fire right now. Just yesterday Ghislaine Maxwell's 2016 deposition was unsealed, and it mentions Clinton and Prince Andrew, among others…

Did you mean to link to another PDF? There's only one page of deposition in that file and it doesn't name any Epstein clients. It's just a bit of back-and-forth between the plaintiff's attorney and the defendant's attorney.

Re: The Now-Defunct Firms Behind 8chan, QAnon

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how skeptical people are of the idea of a paedophile ring among the elites when only recently Jeffrey Epstein was arrested for running one (and mysteriously died in custody).

And Donald Trump has been the chief investigator going back a decade or two now? His recent trip to Walter Reed was just cover for his actual purpose which was a trip to hunt and kill some of these cannibalistic paedophiles? You aren't skeptical of that?

I don't believe any of that literally but Fred Trump (Donald Trump's father) was supposedly a member and financier of the John Birch Society: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/John_Birch_Society

Re: The Now-Defunct Firms Behind 8chan, QAnon

#147
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this line of thinking is absolutely correct when conspiracy theories are fringe or harmless. You don't believe we landed on the moon? Okay, buddy, have a nice day. Occasionally, though, conspiracy theorists escape the harmless fringe and become actively harmful to society, which is what many of us believe is happening in the USA today. A racist conspiracy theory that posited, contrary to all evidence, that ou…

It has also destoyed families. I know people whose parents have gone down the QAnon rabbit hole, and the outcome is absolutely insane. They can't have a 20 minute conversation without the vast pedophilic conspiracy in Washington intruding (Because the parents cannot understand why their children could possibly be acting in accord with it.) Another one of my friends can't even see his mother, because she doesn't belie…

Speaking as someone who deals with a fair amount of this in their extended family, I honestly think a blind spot the human race has is a struggle to believe this can really get "that bad".

I've had relatives (now deceased) who were way down the rabbit hole, long before the whole QAnon thing, and given the sort of destructive effects it has on their life, to me - it's in the same bucket as alcoholism or addiction. It did the same sort of things that joining a "cut ties" cult like scientology or 7th day adventists did; you'd lose friends, spouses, even your job, etc.

None of this is a new phenomenon - it's just, people don't join the moonies or hare krishna anymore - they join weird internet cults now like QAnon.

(In my case, we essentially lost a family member who went on a deep-dive into anti-semitic nationalism back in the 60s.)

Re: The Now-Defunct Firms Behind 8chan, QAnon

#148
post #63
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I don't understand about qanon, which I assume is because what I know of qanon is only this surface-level premise. Where does it go off the rails? Because--if we're being real with ourselves--we have to contend with the fact there is a pedophile island, and heads of state, royals, and other elite are credibly implicated the sex trafficking that sustains it.

AIUI, the key part of QAnon is "the storm", the idea that some secretive group in the Trump administration is preparing some kind of mass indictments, possibly involving military tribunals, to bust all of the secret pedophiles. This is "the plan" that QAnon people implore us to "trust". No matter how bizarre and disconnected the happenings in various Government agencies seem, it's all supposedly part of "the plan" th…

To be honest it sounds like a way to build a groundswell of populist support before arresting vast swaths of political prisoners. The same thing happened in Germany with Jews -- they were called enslavers and disease spreaders. So that people who didn't hate Jews could still get behind the violence because slavery and disease spreading are bad.

Re: The Now-Defunct Firms Behind 8chan, QAnon

#149
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CP has never been allowed on 4chan or 8chan. The reason 8chan can about was because 4chan started banning gamergate stuff.

That's not actually true. In fact, Google delisted 8Chan due to child abuse content.

Many tech companies ban things for political reasons and provide these types of explanations as cover. Similar to how Reddit banned the_donald because of supposed anti-cop violent threats on the subreddit which is of course completely and utterly absurd.
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