Earlier quoted context omitted.
Epicycles have nothing to do with orbits. They were state of the art science when Earth was at the center of the universe.
Then we built new technology that conclusively disproved them. As a result we have sat-nav and space travel. If that's the disaster that came from building bigger telescopes, keep it coming. 'We don't believe it because it's hard to test' is not science.
Particle Physicists Continue to Make Empty Promises
181–190 of 204 posts
Re: Particle Physicists Continue to Make Empty Promises
#182Physicist here, although it is nice to know what happens when we use very high energies, this is not something relevant for humanity, I'd invest that money on things that we really need, for example clean energies.
Couldn't a more thorough understanding of particle physics be relevant to things like nano-materials or better understanding superconductivity or possibly additional ways to contain plasma for fusion?
Re: Particle Physicists Continue to Make Empty Promises
#18379 points as of now. And how many points would hacker news have given to the Nature comment by Giudice and Gianotti? It is both curious and sad to see the outsize attention given to bitter polemicists (and not just in physics). Please read https://www.nature.com/articles/s41567-020-01054-6 . Edit: downvotes? let me rephrase: if you care about particle physics then there was no reason to ignore the original proposal.…
The insight that people care about outrage is not particularly novel. You yourself care about outrage - it's the reason you left the comment you left. If I care about outrage, on the other hand... What? I'm like you and most other people?
In a better forum the original proposal by the particle physics community would have reached the front page and then a version of this blog post could have been a valid comment.
Now it is the other way around and I think that is unfortunate. Why does it happen?
Re: Particle Physicists Continue to Make Empty Promises
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Web browsers and HTML were invented at CERN. More structural funding for open source software would also be welcome. Software that deals with communication (browsers, protocols, email, filesystems, codecs, etc.) should be fully open and developed by universities and government institutions, imho.
>developed by universities and government institutions The NSA called to say that they like your thinking there!
Re: Particle Physicists Continue to Make Empty Promises
#185Re: Particle Physicists Continue to Make Empty Promises
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>There is scientific consensus Really - I thought that we were debating an article by a scientist, who along with many other scientists disagrees with that position. >>This is supported by technical arguments which are hard to communicate to the general public. And yet the general public is being asked to pay for it. Perhaps sorting out that gap and explaining how understanding dark matter will be as important as (f…
She is not a scientist active in this area. At this point she is for the most part paid to be a science communicator. A lot of money is spend on curing all these other things. Particle accelerators have been instrumental in developing the technology for hadron radiation therapy (there are now special purpose one just for cancer treatment) and superconducting magnets (useful for MRT medical devices). If you examine it…
Re: Particle Physicists Continue to Make Empty Promises
#187I somewhat agree with the premise, but the real kicker is the opportunity cost: there is so much Europe could be doing with this money that would have actual, real-world impact. There is a critical need for independent European software infrastructure - for this kind of money, they could fund their own web browser or OS or social media platform, which would exist independently of US-controlled tech. Would I trade a E…
I think it would be better for the EU to fund existing open source solutions than to create EU-controlled proprietary ones. Fund Firefox so Mozilla doesn't have to take funding from Google any more. Fund Linux kernel porting to mobile devices. Fund LineageOS, Replicant, postmarketOS and the myriad GNU/Linux mobile OSes. Fund yaCy and searx. Fund RISC-V implementations. PS: it sounds like there is some sort of EU plan…
Re: Particle Physicists Continue to Make Empty Promises
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
The insight that people care about outrage is not particularly novel. You yourself care about outrage - it's the reason you left the comment you left. If I care about outrage, on the other hand... What? I'm like you and most other people?
.. then all you end up finding is conflict? In a better forum the original proposal by the particle physics community would have reached the front page and then a version of this blog post could have been a valid comment. Now it is the other way around and I think that is unfortunate. Why does it happen?
Re: Particle Physicists Continue to Make Empty Promises
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't really understand that argument. What does a failed prediction about super-symmetry in 1996 have to do with the opportunities of the next collider? How does "we didn't find evidence for or against supersymmetry at LHC" connect to dark matter experiments in its successor? I'm also not really convinced of what she categorizes as failure. She enumerates quite a few incorrect predictions, but is that sufficient t…
> She enumerates quite a few incorrect predictions You make a good point - without the expensive accelerator data, we’d have no idea that these omg ridiculous stupid waaaa predictions are true or false!!!
No, even with the accelerator data we probably still won't be able to conclusively rule out many approaches. We'll only be able to rule out overly specific variants of those predictions. Which, given the infinitude of available theories, doesn't do much to narrow things down.
Think of it this way: At one point, geocentric theories of planetary motion based on nested crystal spheres were requiring ever more elaborate arrangements with more spheres. More observations with greater precision only required adding more spheres.
We're somewhat in the same situation WRT high-energy physics today, in that larger and more powerful accelerators will only rule out particular theory variants, just as more powerful telescopes would only have ruled out particular arrangements of crystal spheres. Just as geocentrism as a category of theories isn't falsifiable by greater precision, many of the current approaches toward HEP aren't falsifiable by ever more powerful accelerators. You can always add another dimension or mathematical elaboration to explain the observations.
Which simply means that right now, another large particle accelerator probably isn't the most useful experimental approach to figuring out how to reconcile the two well-supported theories we do have.
Re: Particle Physicists Continue to Make Empty Promises
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
> ROI = (the potential advance) / (invested money) is too small That's unknown in advance. To take example from maths, the conic sections, braid theory, number theory—they all used to be very abstract and un-applicable parts maths, until one day.
If it's unknown in advance surely it's more rational to spread the research out instead of putting most of the available eggs in a single basket. CERN found Higgs - which was proposed decades before CERN was built. There is nothing like the Higgs proposal around today. That's the real problem. Spend $20bn on some new models, and then you can spend $20bn chasing the most interesting prospects. That's far more likely t…
* CERN: founded 1954, as a lab for nuclear physics
* PRL electroweak symmetry breaking papers: 1964