PHP 8: Before and After

Post by kstrauser » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 6:11 PM UTC

SergeAx wrote: post #280

kstrauser wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Python is not suitable for complex multi-layered systems But PHP is? I cannot imagine a "complex multi-layered system" for which PHP is a better solution than a Python stack.

PHP has (almost) complete strong typing system and all the bells and whistles of OOP needed to implement said systems using proper patterns and methodologies and make it modular and testable enough to be robust and supportable for a long time.

  $ php --version
  PHP 7.3.11 (cli) (built: Jun  5 2020 23:50:40) ( NTS )
  Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group
  Zend Engine v3.3.11, Copyright (c) 1998-2018 Zend Technologies
  
  $ php -r 'echo "123" + 45;'                                                                
  168

  Python 3.8.3 (default, Jun  1 2020, 10:55:34)
  >>> "123" + 45
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "", line 1, in 
  TypeError: can only concatenate str (not "int") to str

Post by francislavoie » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 6:39 PM UTC

ragnese wrote: post #226

dcabrejas wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't found any good arguments against PHP in the comments here, just pure hate. Let's name a few of the arguments people are making: 1. Its variables start with $ and that is ugly: I mean, come on, I won't even entertain this bigotry. 2. It used to be better before: This is just pure nonesense, before OOP PHP wasn't good to create any big and well-structured application, it is ironic because most of the bad opin…

You're not being fair to the argument #3. PHP is becoming a less good Java. That's the problem. It's like Java, except it doesn't have generics, doesn't have real data structures (List, HashMap, Deque), no threads or async, no method/function reference or typed function parameters, etc. So the whole "It's trying to be Java" is more like "What does it offer that's better than Java? Because Java has stuff that is bette…

Post by zapt02 » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 6:57 PM UTC

NationalPark wrote: post #274

zapt02 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you mean persistent databases or caching like Redis, it's still much easier to accidentally reference a global pointer due to a programming error than accidentally put something in a cache store. All systems need some sort of persistence, this is true for other languages as well.

No, I'm talking about the kind of thing that provides a `Context`-like object that allows the application developer to share memory between requests.

Post by Izkata » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 7:09 PM UTC

jhgb wrote: post #178

dcabrejas wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't found any good arguments against PHP in the comments here, just pure hate. Let's name a few of the arguments people are making: 1. Its variables start with $ and that is ugly: I mean, come on, I won't even entertain this bigotry. 2. It used to be better before: This is just pure nonesense, before OOP PHP wasn't good to create any big and well-structured application, it is ironic because most of the bad opin…

> 1. Its variables start with $ and that is ugly: At the very least it seems nonsensical and cargo-cultish: As a non PHP-er, what is the actual purpose of $? In Perl, it indicates variable context (for better or worse, there's more than one, so it has to be indicated somehow ). In shell, it indicates the substitution of variable name by its value. In PHP...I draw a blank. It really seems like an "I wanted my language…

  $foo = "I am foo\n";
  $bar = "foo";
  echo $$bar;

  function run_foo() {
      echo "I'm a foo\n";
  }

  $method = 'foo';  
  $picked = "run_$method";
  $picked();

Post by wayvey » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 7:14 PM UTC

jozzy-james wrote: post #278

jrochkind1 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this has an impact on performance And yet, I find that PHP apps tend to be quite performant, compared to say Java or Rails (I don't know about node, maybe not compared to node). But I'm not a PHP developer, this is just my impression. And the complaints you hear about PHP, I seldom hear performance. No?

if you do something in a naive way, PHP performance can tank pretty severe - but that's more down to the developer implementation rather than a shortcoming of the language itself