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Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

reuters.com

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Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#111

Post by garenp »

Philip-J-Fry wrote: post #23
tudorconstantin wrote: post #2

Summary: "The survey said information technology decision-makers expect permanent remote work to double to 34.4% of their companies’ workforces in 2021, compared with 16.4% before the coronavirus outbreak, a result of positive productivity trends. About 72% of their companies’ total global workforce is currently working remotely, according to the CIOs." Honestly I would expect it to remain at more than 34%. Who would…

For some people (me included) the office is a very productive environment. Some things I am really interested in can be smashed out at home with no problems. But boring work is a chore unless I'm at the office where I can get my mind to say "you're at work, you're getting paid for this". I can do boring work well at work, whereas at home I wanna do anything just to get it out of my face. Not only that, for some peopl…

Your last point about career development is an interesting one that comes up. If you are remote but your co-workers are interacting in person I can see how there would be an informational advantage in favor of your co-workers that is unavoidable.

My preference is to WFH most of the time, but not all the time. When WFH for awhile, I can much more easily get into a zen-like state of concentration after an hour or so that is extremely difficult to get in an office. At the office I have to contend with constant sources of distractions and interruptions (people walking up on foot, phone ringing, non-work related discussion, ...) which has often made me feel like the only time I can push through a hard problem is during off-hours when no one is around. Most importantly, being in a zen-like state while working and getting stuff done is what makes work enjoyable for me.

That said, whenever there is a significant amount of collaboration or a need for a lot of round-trip communication with someone (new employee, need to bring someone up to speed, ...) it's better in person - but I find this to be only an occasional need.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#112

Post by ckdarby »

wasdfff wrote: post #99
ckdarby wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees who adjust to the change and moved out of the high cost of living area. An example from my own circumstances, I was paying $1800/month for a 1 bedroom in Toronto but now for a little bit less I have a 3 bedroom house with a small yard.

And we are seeing some employers adjust pay to location now too. In the end you are also subsidizing the office out of square footage in your home, and reaping none of the benefits such as socializing with people.

Some employers are adjusting for pay location, not all, and mine didn't because the cost of losing me was more than adjusting the salary for the different location.

I am reaping the $200/month transit pass that I no longer need. As a Canadian I'm able to ask my employer for a T2200 to write some of my expenses off even as an employee.

I'm also saving ~5 hours a week in less commute time.

I'm still socializing with those coworkers in our daily water coolers, weekly syncs, Monday & Friday fireside chat.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#113

Post by EliRivers »

Philip-J-Fry wrote: post #23
tudorconstantin wrote: post #2

Summary: "The survey said information technology decision-makers expect permanent remote work to double to 34.4% of their companies’ workforces in 2021, compared with 16.4% before the coronavirus outbreak, a result of positive productivity trends. About 72% of their companies’ total global workforce is currently working remotely, according to the CIOs." Honestly I would expect it to remain at more than 34%. Who would…

For some people (me included) the office is a very productive environment. Some things I am really interested in can be smashed out at home with no problems. But boring work is a chore unless I'm at the office where I can get my mind to say "you're at work, you're getting paid for this". I can do boring work well at work, whereas at home I wanna do anything just to get it out of my face. Not only that, for some peopl…

Putting aside the 4000 GBP (5200 USD) I no longer have to pay each year for the privilege of taking the train to work, I would definitely trade a significant amount of career success for a lifetime working from home. It's so, so good.

Obviously others have a different take, but I can see myself never going into the office regularly again.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#114

Post by jbjohns »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #108
jbjohns wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that SF/US based employees will look to be paid more it's that people in India who have comparable skills will look for compensation closer to what one gets in SF/US. Why would they accept prevailing outsourcing shop wages now that they can work directly for western companies? This change is already occurring in the circle I'm in contact with.

It's both. The market will find a new equilibrium somewhere below SF and above India.

Surely that improves more than it hurts? I'm under the strong impression that most software developers aren't on these FAANG salaries.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#115

Post by bobthepanda »

hoot wrote: post #91
jjoonathan wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's about as helpful as telling someone with depression to "just be happy."

They literally recommended something simple and physical that almost any person could do.

Without any regard for whether it works for all people all of the time.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#116

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

jbjohns wrote: post #114
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's both. The market will find a new equilibrium somewhere below SF and above India.

Surely that improves more than it hurts? I'm under the strong impression that most software developers aren't on these FAANG salaries.

Sure, as long as you don't live in SF/US. It's almost certainly going to help me, but I'm not sure I'd like it if I was based in the Valley.

I'm just pointing out some of the potential consequences.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#117

Post by xwdv »

namanyayg wrote: post #21
ozim wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you underestimate issues that come with hiring someone from another country. I am not going to hire an accountant from Vietnam to do my taxes even if I would be able to pay him $1 instead of $100. Accountant from Vietnam is not going to learn US or some EU country tax code if he has customers in Vietnam. In case something goes wrong, like you would have to go to court to settle things, good luck on getting someon…

That's a contrived example; the jobs of most people reading HN can (and will) be outsourced.

Most people on HN are extremely intelligent and could adapt easily to any kind of STEM job it’s not an issue, just look at how many experts comment on a diverse range of topics here.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#118

Post by nullsense »

wastedhours wrote: post #54
nullsense wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solid advice mate. Why didn't I think of just not doing it? It's so simple it's almost genius. Just don't do it. Wish I'd thought if that sooner. It was staring me in the face the whole time. Just... Don't do it! Of course. Silly me. Silly me for continuing to do something day in day out that I obviously don't like or want to do, but could just opt not to but for some reason don't. I wonder why that is...

I don't quite get your flippance - you weren't doing it before, and are now doing it. What's changed? Why are you working extra hours at home when in the office you wouldn't have? What's the externalities here? Why has 2 hours downtime turned into 2 hours more work, rather than 2 hours of downtime at home? I admit the OP was blunt, but it's not a ridiculous question - where has the time gone?

Sorry, just me venting my frustrations at how my disability once again gets the better of me.

It's not at all a ridiculous question, no. It's a completely fair one. It's a dick move on my part to react like that without any context as to why. Suffice to say in my case it's akin to asking a drug addict why don't you just not take the drugs?

I'm very "field dependent" meaning my behavior is influenced by my environment to an outsized degree. It's not all under my voluntary control. The absolute best, and sometimes only, way to get myself to what I want/need to do is to create an environment that doesn't give me the option not to do it. Having a bus that is leaving soon and won't be one for another hour gives me the kick in the pants I need to tear myself away from what I'm doing and head home. The bus gives me nothing else to do, so I read. When it was WFH my environment didn't force me to do anything, so with those guard rails gone I lost control, which is pretty natural for me.

2020 has been a tough year.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#119

Post by theshrike79 »

Maakuth wrote: post #61
theshrike79 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For others it's a hellscape and for others - like me - it's a blessing. I can work in the morning, make some lunch, work a while after lunch. Then the kids come home, I can help with their homework and keep working for a bit more. I can even assist colleagues in different time zones, since my computer is near me at all times. Just a quick chat during my evening (their morning) will speed things up immensely by unbloc…

How are you ever unwinding if you do work around the clock? For me I'm quickly feeling stress symptoms if I start to do work tasks after hours. I have a family too, so in theory it would be great for me too to do family stuff in the middle of the day and then return to work in the evening. But in practice if I do that, work will soon intrude my dreams, my mood worsens and I have less energy.

I don't work around the clock.

Normally I'd leave for my commute at 0700 to get to the office at 8, and again leave around 1600 and be at home around 1700.

When remote, most of my work gets done between 0800 and 1700. There are a few late-night calls (15-30 minutes) due to time zones and maybe a handful of times I need to consult a team on the other side of the planet during the evening.

Basically I get to sleep an hour longer, since my commute is 60 seconds and doesn't require me to be dressed. Also I get to take breaks during the day any way I like - that's how I played through Spider-man on PS4 :D

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#120

Post by dailygrind___ »

jjav wrote: post #25
bobthepanda wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, permanent remote is also not great (particularly in a context where there are no offices), because for people in my living situation that puts the onus on us to find our "work" zone. I'd rather not spend extra money on more real estate or a WeWork-type membership. I just don't find it very surprising that ~60-70% of people don't particularly like permanent remote, since it's 1. a departure from the norm and 2…

The work office is not the only way to have an office. In these times, I'm renting a small one person private office a few minutes away (by bike) from home. It's the best of all worlds. Quiet space to work, it is outside of the house for separation, but very close so the commute is minimal on a bike and don't need to drive. I don't love having to pay for the space but objectively it is less than the cost of fuel I wa…

I can see this becoming the norm.
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