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California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

reuters.com

341–350 of 423 posts

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And i think it's OK. There is a reason why professional truck drivers must not drive longer than specified amount of time without taking breaks. Work safety regulations are usually written in blood.

But the work is fundamentally different. You can work 80 hours in retail for example. With Uber drivers it's not "drive down long stretch of road without a break for 8 hours".

"Less repetitive/boring" != "less mentally taxing".

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#342
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the drivers could be paid a wage and it wouldn't be a problem. It sounds like the current system for compensating drivers creates an incentive for bad service in this instance, not good.

How is taking rides on the way home bad service? Why should I get the same wage as a sub par driver?

>How is taking rides on the way home bad service Does uber guarantee that there will be paying rides to bring you back home? Otherwise you are driving on your own dime

>Why should I get the same wage as a sub par driver Because that's not how the world works. It isn't some meritocratic paradise that fairly pays people for their work. Besides, nothing says uber can't pay you more for being a better fully employed driver. If you truly are a better driver, surely you could get a raise right?

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#343
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how can we know that you're not a shill?

How do we know you’re not a shill? What does this question do other than lower the level of discourse in the community?

The OP repeated a claim being made by the large gig companies without providing any references or actual data. If anything is lowering the level of discourse here it is parroting a politically-loaded factual claim ("Up to 70% of drivers are like me and ... would like you to vote yes on Prop 22 if you are in California.") without citing any independently verifiable data to support it.

Asking how we can know the OP is not a shill just seemed like a less long-winded way to make that point. It was late.

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#344
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how can we know that you're not a shill?

I'm enthusiastic about the software that Uber and Lyft are developing to make this whole thing work so beautifully. I catch their algorithms making mistakes sometimes. I catch them doing something sneaky sometimes (Lyft more than Uber.) I have some ideas on how to make it work better. I've done 2000 rides and picked up some really interesting people. I like to go to different cities and try them out. It's fun. If my…

Fair enough. Let me restate my concern in less fraught terms:

> "Up to 70% of drivers are like me and ... would like you to vote yes on Prop 22 if you are in California."

This is a claim that has been widely promulgated by the big gig-economy companies in a wide-ranging PR campaign. Do you have any actual independently-verifiable data to support it, or are you just blindly repeating it to advance a political agenda that you just happen to support?

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making this out to be a political argument which it is not. The point is when all levels of government align under one party, which has leaders, it becomes more like a dictatorship. I don’t care how bad you personally consider the Republican party, there are those who consider Democrats the same way. That polar mindset is the problem. It’s not as black and white as you make it out to be and many people often…

> You are making this out to be a political argument which it is not. No, I'm not. I'm making it out to be a factual argument about the causes of the present political situation, which it very much is. You seem to be unable to separate evaluation of the factual causes and effects of political situation with moral evaluation of the involved actors. > The point is when all levels of government align under one party, wh…

The way you are trying to dissect bits and pieces of this and not the point itself is proof enough of your bias here. You are literally splitting sentences in half and debating them separately. Really, you are even trying to debate an undisputed point of “bad” and go on to explain how wrong that is and that it is republicans “poorly chosen..etc.” Again that partisan politics has nothing to do with the point. What are are arguing is already obvious because republicans are losing and thus yes obviously they had a bad strategy. If a football team lost a game literally everyone could say they had a bad strategy or the other team has a good. The problem and point of what we are saying is what RESULTS from that occurring not a discussion on how it occurred.

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#346
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, you're paying for a ride, not for someone to make eye contact with you while sucking your dick. And even if they do make eye contact, it doesn't actually mean that they like it. Forcing people to feign pleasure under threat of poverty may work to a certain extent, but it's harmful to social cohesion in the long run. It breeds resentment and humiliation, and it's harmful to mental health and self-esteem,…

I know you may find this hard to believe, but some people like to help other people and be of service. I drive where I want and when I want. I don't have to pick anyone up. That's going to change if we have to be employees. Taking away freedom and forcing employees to follow restrictive rules is how to breed resentment. You're going to miss Lyft and Uber when it is gone and turns into a taxi company.

I think your situation as retired sv programmer might be very different to someone who drives Uber to make ends meet.

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the work is fundamentally different. You can work 80 hours in retail for example. With Uber drivers it's not "drive down long stretch of road without a break for 8 hours".

"Less repetitive/boring" != "less mentally taxing".

Sure, but that also doesn't mean you can't work just fine doing 80 hours/week in some jobs and not be fine working 80 hours/week in others.

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"ride sharing" is not how people use it. People use it as a cab.

And it doesn't matter. Now it's a fully consensual relationship between Uber and the driver (and the customer), where everyone involved agrees to the terms voluntarily. The law changes that, and will simply result in the loss of jobs.

And someone can consent to working in a chemical plant without protection but OSHA won't let that happen. Worker rights need to be protected by law, or it is a race to the bottom for the working conditions of the poorest.

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#349
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminder that the Democratic party, like all others, is an IRS-registered business, and like all others, has only one goal: to make money. It’s not a sacred oath to save the world. It’s a taco stand next to a hot dog vendor. They make money. Maybe they have a big customer. It’s probably not you. You’re a good customer but you’ll never eat a hot dog, so they don’t have to change their menu for you.

That's a shockingly cynical view. Not everyone exists purely to make money.

Politicians do though.

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#350
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No... it's not this simple. The mechanism for overriding a government existing is one thing, but making it so easy to trigger for the most random things left and right is quite another. I'm not sure if you've seen the CA ballots, but casting an informed vote is quite arduous for the average person, partly due to the nuances involved in the topics (experts who've spent their lives studying these topics can easily disa…

> casting an informed vote is quite arduous for the average person This argument always comes up when discussing direct democracy or similar ideas, but it completely collapses under even the most basic scrutiny! Direct voting is strictly better than delegated voting, because you can always ... wait for it ... delegate your vote! You don’t care enough about the issue to educate yourself? Simply cast the vote for the o…

It's difficult to informatively delegate your vote with all the entirely false mailers and advertisements bombarding people every election. The numbers of voters who vote flippantly, or vote on false premises, have never been quantified, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were significant given the amount of times the electorate has directly voted against their own self interest (like banning subway construction in LA from the 90s to the 2010s, and paying for it now with higher construction costs three decades later).
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