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Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

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Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#171

Post by haagen »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #51
Udo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. Since any path to becoming high status attracts heavy gate keeping quickly (essentially clearing that path for people who have high status to begin with) it seems reasonable that people try to "hide" in low status niches where there are way fewer predators. I think success here is somewhat incidental. No doubt the vast majority of niche workers are pursuing non-viable careers, a minority can just a…

It's striking just how few billionaires come from genuinely low-status backgrounds. Gates, Bezos, Musk, Zuckerberg, Buffet, and so on were not born dirt poor. And those that do invariably either had a scene they could grow into - like Steve Jobs orbiting around HP and landing at Atari in his earliest days, which wouldn't have happened if he'd been living in (say) Idaho. Or they have some questionable connections and…

When your family is extremely well off, it can lead to the real or subconscious understanding that there is no long term downside to failure. Money will come to you anyhow eventually.

I rarely hear the argument that the USA needs gov funded heath care, BECAUSE it would be good for entrepreneurs. It's a bit like being part of a wealthy family :)

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#172

Post by mywittyname »

User23 wrote: post #160
gonehome wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably a lot of people are driven to be entrepreneurs because of the status. The issue with the bankers is that they’re trapped in a local maximum. A successful entrepreneur is probably the highest status role possible in modern society (think Zuckerberg, Bezos, Gates) maybe even rivaling POTUS. I don’t buy that entrepreneurs are not interested in status, they’re just making a longer term status play (and taking on…

> A successful entrepreneur is probably the highest status role possible in modern society (think Zuckerberg, Bezos, Gates) maybe even rivaling POTUS. Not even close. Regardless of the high esteem we may hold them in, the average person just sees them that you list as rich dorks. Compare and contrast with say Brad Pitt or Leonardo DiCaprio who, to use a stock phrase, men want to be and women want to be with.

Being a business person is the ultimate status symbol in the USA. Look at our current president: he was elected because of his perceived "business prowess." Had he been considered merely a reality TV host, he would not have been elected.

If you think about it, it's odd that we even know the names of business leaders. But, I bet the typical American could name F500 CEOs than they could famous painters.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#173

Post by giantg2 »

UK-Al05 wrote: post #130
username90 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is being a midlevel dev low status?

It's pretty much 1 above the bottom rung in tech companies.

That, and nobody listens to my ideas or opinions. I'm always stuck building someone else's (management's) half-baked idea. It'd be nice if I were at least a part of the strategy and design discussions. I'm tired of being told to think outside the box only to be put down when I do.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#174

Post by ska »

username90 wrote: post #102
roenxi wrote: post #7

The more-correct observation is that any well-understood or easy path to becoming high status will be shut down. Most people are not high status, and want to be. It follows that the path has to be either risky, or difficult to comprehend. If hard work were enough, we'd all be in charge. Lots of hard workers out there.

Hard work only matters when you work hard to change yourself. If you work 80 hours a week bagging groceries nobody can say you don't work hard, but it isn't very productive work. Most people just follow the path set for them, and among those who do set out to change they mostly just change from one standard path to another. Like switching from bagging groceries to college to become a programmer. Very few want to do t…

  > Hard work only matters when you work hard to change yourself.
This may be necessary, but is certainly not sufficient (to the OPs point).

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#175

Post by lhorie »

paulsutter wrote: post #84

Folks in the status professions (banking, law,..) often tell me they want to become an entrepreneur. I always tell them, you wont do it. They attended the right school, joined the right firm, attained that corner office. As a founder they would give up all that, and their family and friends will tell them that they've made a massive mistake, for years, while it appears that nothing is happening. Then they sheepishly…

Does entrepreneurship have to be a 80 hour week full time all-or-nothing commitment? What of those passive income advocates that talk about slowly building revenue streams on the side?

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#177

Post by poulsbohemian »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #51
Udo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. Since any path to becoming high status attracts heavy gate keeping quickly (essentially clearing that path for people who have high status to begin with) it seems reasonable that people try to "hide" in low status niches where there are way fewer predators. I think success here is somewhat incidental. No doubt the vast majority of niche workers are pursuing non-viable careers, a minority can just a…

It's striking just how few billionaires come from genuinely low-status backgrounds. Gates, Bezos, Musk, Zuckerberg, Buffet, and so on were not born dirt poor. And those that do invariably either had a scene they could grow into - like Steve Jobs orbiting around HP and landing at Atari in his earliest days, which wouldn't have happened if he'd been living in (say) Idaho. Or they have some questionable connections and…

JR Simplot was the wealthiest man in Idaho for a long time, and if I recall correctly didn't get through high school and was the perfect model for the kind of low-status signaling addressed above.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#178

Post by carlmr »

lhorie wrote: post #175
paulsutter wrote: post #84

Folks in the status professions (banking, law,..) often tell me they want to become an entrepreneur. I always tell them, you wont do it. They attended the right school, joined the right firm, attained that corner office. As a founder they would give up all that, and their family and friends will tell them that they've made a massive mistake, for years, while it appears that nothing is happening. Then they sheepishly…

Does entrepreneurship have to be a 80 hour week full time all-or-nothing commitment? What of those passive income advocates that talk about slowly building revenue streams on the side?

I think that's a different goal, they want to be quasi unemployed with money, surfing at the beach in Bali.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#179

Post by BossingAround »

derekam wrote: post #169
paulsutter wrote: post #84

Folks in the status professions (banking, law,..) often tell me they want to become an entrepreneur. I always tell them, you wont do it. They attended the right school, joined the right firm, attained that corner office. As a founder they would give up all that, and their family and friends will tell them that they've made a massive mistake, for years, while it appears that nothing is happening. Then they sheepishly…

>People considered me to be quasi-unemployed, despite working 80 hours a week. This hits hard. Whenever I think I want to do something, I try to seriously think about whether it’s something I want to do , or something I want to have done . Working on side projects and companies is something I enjoy actually doing, while for a lot of the status-seeking types it’s usually something they want to have done and finished s…

Interesting. I do all side projects because I want to have done them. I don't really enjoy doing them, but they bring benefit to someone, and that might be worth my time. I'm thinking of writing a book for the same reason; I know I'll be miserable writing it, but having done that, it'll look great on my CV, and might bring me some benefits.

For me, most of the worth to be doing category is stuff I don't enjoy, yet I do it anyways for the long-term gain.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#180

Post by george43m »

User23 wrote: post #160
gonehome wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably a lot of people are driven to be entrepreneurs because of the status. The issue with the bankers is that they’re trapped in a local maximum. A successful entrepreneur is probably the highest status role possible in modern society (think Zuckerberg, Bezos, Gates) maybe even rivaling POTUS. I don’t buy that entrepreneurs are not interested in status, they’re just making a longer term status play (and taking on…

> A successful entrepreneur is probably the highest status role possible in modern society (think Zuckerberg, Bezos, Gates) maybe even rivaling POTUS. Not even close. Regardless of the high esteem we may hold them in, the average person just sees them that you list as rich dorks. Compare and contrast with say Brad Pitt or Leonardo DiCaprio who, to use a stock phrase, men want to be and women want to be with.

Status is relative. Going with the dating analogy:

Girls who are into IT will view Zuckerberg as higher status vs. Brad Pitt.

A girl who's into acting acting will view Brad Pitt as more 'high status' than Zuckerberg.

I think you may have confused "modern society" with TechCrunch/other mainstream tech publications. If this was a politics community, someone would probably say that "modern society considers Biden" as someone with the highest-status role.

I think we under-appreciate the role of context when we talk about status.

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