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Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

reuters.com

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Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#101

Post by cableshaft »

nullsense wrote: post #12
panny wrote: post #7

The article is light on reasons for increased productivity, but according to anecdotes I've heard, it's due partly to even longer working hours at home. Concretely, when salary employees WFH, all hours have become working hours for them. I've read accounts where people are having mental issues due to the dystopic new reality where they are always at work. They end up working around the clock, because they are constan…

My 1 hour commute where I got much needed downtime during which I would read books was replaced with sitting in front of my screen working. Basically wound up working additional 2 hours a day. Just totally unable to switch off either. Fucking hate it. Muh happier commuting and working with real people in an office.

Can you go outside with a book at all? Even if you live in an apartment, there should be either some shared courtyard space or a balcony. Even just going out into the hall. That's basically what students did when I was in the dorms at college. Put some physical space between you and your work environment.

I live in a house, so I can just take a seat on the patio out back (as long as it's not cold or raining like it is today), but there should be some equivalent. Do that for an hour then go back into your apartment and sign in for work.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#102

Post by wasdfff »

ozim wrote: post #18
theodric wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can work from home, you are now competing with the entire global labor force for your job. Expect your salary to go down as a result, since you are now much more replaceable.

No, you underestimate issues that come with hiring someone from another country. I am not going to hire an accountant from Vietnam to do my taxes even if I would be able to pay him $1 instead of $100. Accountant from Vietnam is not going to learn US or some EU country tax code if he has customers in Vietnam. In case something goes wrong, like you would have to go to court to settle things, good luck on getting someon…

They don’t have to hire someone from Vietnam. They could hire someone from West Virginia for 1/4 the price of a SF developer a day after college. Maybe even less.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#103

Post by Exmoor »

cableshaft wrote: post #98
jscheel wrote: post #97

We absolutely should not be measuring WFH productivity right now. There are way too many variables to consider at this point. Because it's new for a lot of people, and because of the lockdowns, there seem to be a lot of issues with overwork. I absolutely love WFH, and I've been doing for quite a long time, but I feel pretty confident that we are going to see a bunch of companies claim to go fully WFH, and they backpe…

Just anecdata, but I've been doing full WFH for my company for the past 2.5 years. If anything my productivity has gone down because of the stress of the pandemic, not up because of more hours (which I worked more hours WFH before the pandemic also).

I think you can make really strong arguments for productivity both being higher than normal times (due to overwork, less options for non-work activities, etc.) and lower than normal (due to additional childcare responsibilities, overall stress level, etc.). I think both make a good case for the OP's point that the current situation is not indicative of what we'll be able to sustain long-term, both good and bad.

Personally, I think the biggest thing my team discovered was how much of our work was actually able to be done remotely. We were all averaging roughly one day a week work from home, but I expect to be more like 2-3 long-term.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#104

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

jbjohns wrote: post #64
disiplus wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's both, but location plays a bit role, just go to the gitlab salary calculator and try to enter london and another east europe city. even for the same level role and expertise and assumed same productivity the east europe one will get a smaller compensation, thus costing the company less.

And we should resist this. Do other global products cost less if purchased in cheaper locations? The value we bring to a company is the same regardless of where we're working from. We shouldn't accept lower compensation because of irrelevant "cost of living" arguments.

You can try that, but then why should SF/US based employees be paid more?

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and all that.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#105

Post by jbjohns »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #104
jbjohns wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we should resist this. Do other global products cost less if purchased in cheaper locations? The value we bring to a company is the same regardless of where we're working from. We shouldn't accept lower compensation because of irrelevant "cost of living" arguments.

You can try that, but then why should SF/US based employees be paid more? Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and all that.

It's not that SF/US based employees will look to be paid more it's that people in India who have comparable skills will look for compensation closer to what one gets in SF/US. Why would they accept prevailing outsourcing shop wages now that they can work directly for western companies? This change is already occurring in the circle I'm in contact with.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#106

Post by jbjohns »

Shivetya wrote: post #86
jbjohns wrote: post #57

Some additional things to consider: 1) Remote work does not necessarily mean WFH. It means work where is most effective for you instead of going to some office. These days there are many different kinds of solutions for having office space if you want/need it. It also becomes more of a commodity that you can simply use when needed (e.g. a final push before release, a workshop preparing for a big new project, etc.). 2…

Outsourcing will definitely increase as management gets more comfortable with not being hands on for the work being done. Once you convince them they don't need their people onsite then its a simple step to not needing their own people at all.

In the western European country I live in, everyone was pushing for more and more outsourcing. Initially India but they started using eastern EU countries as well which was cheaper but didn't have e.g. timezone issues. They're mostly pulling back to in-country. There could be a lot of reasons for this, but if the issue is about work quality then I don't see why that changes now.

Anyway, fearing getting replaced by outsourcing is like fearing to get replaced by robots. Maybe it will happen in the end but if so, we never could have stopped it anyway. If it's the right direction and we should pursue it.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#107

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

My concern is that remoting may be responsible for the unexpected increase in housing prices. Areas that were borderline unaffordable before the pandemic have skyrocketed in the last 6 months. Rents and housing prices both just leaped out of range.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#108

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

jbjohns wrote: post #105
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can try that, but then why should SF/US based employees be paid more? Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and all that.

It's not that SF/US based employees will look to be paid more it's that people in India who have comparable skills will look for compensation closer to what one gets in SF/US. Why would they accept prevailing outsourcing shop wages now that they can work directly for western companies? This change is already occurring in the circle I'm in contact with.

It's both. The market will find a new equilibrium somewhere below SF and above India.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#109

Post by whateveracct »

bobthepanda wrote: post #6
tudorconstantin wrote: post #2

Summary: "The survey said information technology decision-makers expect permanent remote work to double to 34.4% of their companies’ workforces in 2021, compared with 16.4% before the coronavirus outbreak, a result of positive productivity trends. About 72% of their companies’ total global workforce is currently working remotely, according to the CIOs." Honestly I would expect it to remain at more than 34%. Who would…

This is great if you have a house with lots of space. Personally as a single young adult I like living in the city with lots of amenities nearby. I would hate being forced to WFH, the same way some hated being forced to go into the office.

I lived downtown for years while working remote for companies in different cities. Not going to the office made it even easier to enjoy the city imo.

Re: Permanently remote workers seen doubling in 2021 due to pandemic productivity

#110

Post by bradlys »

opan wrote: post #47
bobthepanda wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I don't know why we need to keep prescribing one-size-fits-all solutions for people who may respond differently. Prescribing fully office was terrible, why is prescribing fully remote not?

Forcing people into a specific building vs saying they can work anywhere. It's a massive difference. People throw around the term WFH, but you could really work anywhere. It's freedom.

There are limits. You’ll be restricted by timezones and your ability to function in them. WFH doesn’t mean async.
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