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Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

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Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#101

Post by jgilias »

The Twitter thread explores some ideas why this may be the case. However, quickly skimming through it, they miss the most obvious one.

For the people who are busy working on something they find important, most often 'status' is not even a thing. So there's no 'willingness' really to it, it's just that status doesn't really exist. The way they see themselves and how they measure their success has literally nothing to do with what perceptions other people might have about them. And then, sure, eventually some of them end up being pretty successful also by other people's standards.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#102

Post by username90 »

roenxi wrote: post #7

The more-correct observation is that any well-understood or easy path to becoming high status will be shut down. Most people are not high status, and want to be. It follows that the path has to be either risky, or difficult to comprehend. If hard work were enough, we'd all be in charge. Lots of hard workers out there.

Hard work only matters when you work hard to change yourself. If you work 80 hours a week bagging groceries nobody can say you don't work hard, but it isn't very productive work.

Most people just follow the path set for them, and among those who do set out to change they mostly just change from one standard path to another. Like switching from bagging groceries to college to become a programmer. Very few want to do the hard work required to change the world, they prefer safety, even among richer people.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#103

Post by engineer_22 »

esperent wrote: post #92
spicymaki wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about just pure chance? To be born in to the right family, in the right country, to be in the correct field, to have the right idea at the right time. Perhaps the correct path is just luck. We are all rolling the dice here. Just be yourself and do what you find interesting. If it pays off great, if it doesn't that is okay too.

> if it doesn't that is okay too. So for people who find themselves going into dept slavery, unable to feed themselves and their children well, unable to afford healthcare, and so on, you're saying it's all good, just a bad roll of the dice, nothing to worry about? Seems to me more like the system is fundamentally broken if pure chance is all that seperates a millionaire and the destitute and downtrodden.

-> Seems to me more like the system is fundamentally broken...

What assumption have you made about the system's purposes and functions? This is an important question and one we are currently wrestling with as a society. It's one of the BIG QUESTIONS and hard to answer. Plato's Republic might be a good starting place.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#105

Post by ARandomerDude »

onion2k wrote: post #2

Many, many more people work at things other people think are silly and insignificant only to discover that thing is silly and insignificant and then they give up. Occasionally the opposite happens and the person succeeds. If you only look at the successes it probably looks like a willingness to be low-status is a marker for success, but it really isn't. It tells you nothing of the future outcome. The only thing it pr…

I know a successful doctor who's convinced software development is an inherently unstable, unprofessional, and boring career. I really like the guy but I couldn't disagree more with him about this issue.

I bring this up to say: what other people think is significant career-wise is really only a helpful opinion if it's informed. Outsiders (friends, family, etc.) may have helpful questions but they often just don't have enough information to help you decide when to give up or press on.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#106

Post by boredumb »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #91
Sebb767 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chance/Luck is surely involved, but I'd argue that you can make it far easier for luck to find you. If you get a degree in an upcoming field or start a company you're not guaranteed anything, but your chances are a lot better than if you're just slacking off. Sure, at the end it's a dice role, but you can get a better dice ;)

If you get a degree in an upcoming field or start a company you're not guaranteed anything, but your chances are a lot better than if you're just slacking off. But your chances of being able to do that in the first place are massively dependent on your luck. It's a lot harder to get a degree or start a company if your family is struggling to afford essentials, or you're caring for a sick relative.

Just wait until you hear the chances these people had to luck out on in order to become an embryo.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#107

Post by [deleted] »

Sebb767 wrote: post #87
spicymaki wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about just pure chance? To be born in to the right family, in the right country, to be in the correct field, to have the right idea at the right time. Perhaps the correct path is just luck. We are all rolling the dice here. Just be yourself and do what you find interesting. If it pays off great, if it doesn't that is okay too.

Chance/Luck is surely involved, but I'd argue that you can make it far easier for luck to find you. If you get a degree in an upcoming field or start a company you're not guaranteed anything, but your chances are a lot better than if you're just slacking off. Sure, at the end it's a dice role, but you can get a better dice ;)

[deleted]

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#108

Post by madaxe_again »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #51
Udo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. Since any path to becoming high status attracts heavy gate keeping quickly (essentially clearing that path for people who have high status to begin with) it seems reasonable that people try to "hide" in low status niches where there are way fewer predators. I think success here is somewhat incidental. No doubt the vast majority of niche workers are pursuing non-viable careers, a minority can just a…

It's striking just how few billionaires come from genuinely low-status backgrounds. Gates, Bezos, Musk, Zuckerberg, Buffet, and so on were not born dirt poor. And those that do invariably either had a scene they could grow into - like Steve Jobs orbiting around HP and landing at Atari in his earliest days, which wouldn't have happened if he'd been living in (say) Idaho. Or they have some questionable connections and…

The causality perhaps isn’t as clear cut as you might think.

Folks who come from a high status background tend to be more willing to do low status things, because doing so doesn’t undermine their status, which comes from elsewhere.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#109

Post by bumby »

paulsutter wrote: post #84

Folks in the status professions (banking, law,..) often tell me they want to become an entrepreneur. I always tell them, you wont do it. They attended the right school, joined the right firm, attained that corner office. As a founder they would give up all that, and their family and friends will tell them that they've made a massive mistake, for years, while it appears that nothing is happening. Then they sheepishly…

This reminds me of the book "Excellent Sheep" that spoke to the point that much of elite schools is about chasing status. I couldn't find the exact number, but an absurd percentage of graduates go into a select few high prestige career choices, namely finance, consulting, law, and medicine. The point being students are optimizing for high status.

To paraphrase an interaction from the book about entertaining different paths, when pressed a student made it clear: "We've known who we want to be from elementary school. We are the type to get into >".

I sometimes wonder if people focus on chasing status when they're at a loss for defining any other concrete goal. When you aren't sure what you want, it's easy to let society define your goal which manifests itself as chasing status.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#110

Post by mancerayder »

pengstrom wrote: post #100
rjkennedy98 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of hard workers out there. I disagree with this. Never underestimate how many people just don't show up or try at all. Look at average screen time for Americans as a data point. It's a ridiculous 12 hours a day of media usage. Just think about that. People are basically staring at their phones/tvs for 12 out of the 16 waking hours. As I get older I realize more often than not most successful people are not spe…

This is an unfair argument if you're not acknowledging how media is designed to be addictive. Even we technical folk are susceptible. It's a convenient fantasy that the downtrodden deserve their place for being lazy.

That makes it sound like individuals have no agency, or that we're blank slates, or that agency is evenly distributed and low. The point is that from screen addiction to exercise to nutrition to savings, there are varying degrees of self-control, and surely varying degrees of temptation and built-in advantages or disadvantages.

We're conscious beings with a will, and there reaches a point where you struggle with your own will in order to evolve as a person. For some that's screen addiction. I'm only eager to write this comment so I can highlight the danger of a 'not my fault' mentality that's self-sabotaging.

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