Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status • Hacker News Board

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#91

Post by matthewmacleod » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 1:54 PM UTC

Sebb767 wrote: post #87

spicymaki wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about just pure chance? To be born in to the right family, in the right country, to be in the correct field, to have the right idea at the right time. Perhaps the correct path is just luck. We are all rolling the dice here. Just be yourself and do what you find interesting. If it pays off great, if it doesn't that is okay too.

Chance/Luck is surely involved, but I'd argue that you can make it far easier for luck to find you. If you get a degree in an upcoming field or start a company you're not guaranteed anything, but your chances are a lot better than if you're just slacking off. Sure, at the end it's a dice role, but you can get a better dice ;)

If you get a degree in an upcoming field or start a company you're not guaranteed anything, but your chances are a lot better than if you're just slacking off.

But your chances of being able to do that in the first place are massively dependent on your luck. It's a lot harder to get a degree or start a company if your family is struggling to afford essentials, or you're caring for a sick relative.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#92

Post by esperent » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

spicymaki wrote: post #74

roenxi wrote: post #7

The more-correct observation is that any well-understood or easy path to becoming high status will be shut down. Most people are not high status, and want to be. It follows that the path has to be either risky, or difficult to comprehend. If hard work were enough, we'd all be in charge. Lots of hard workers out there.

What about just pure chance? To be born in to the right family, in the right country, to be in the correct field, to have the right idea at the right time. Perhaps the correct path is just luck. We are all rolling the dice here. Just be yourself and do what you find interesting. If it pays off great, if it doesn't that is okay too.

> if it doesn't that is okay too.

So for people who find themselves going into dept slavery, unable to feed themselves and their children well, unable to afford healthcare, and so on, you're saying it's all good, just a bad roll of the dice, nothing to worry about?

Seems to me more like the system is fundamentally broken if pure chance is all that seperates a millionaire and the destitute and downtrodden.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#93

Post by ianai » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 1:56 PM UTC

paulsutter wrote: post #84

Folks in the status professions (banking, law,..) often tell me they want to become an entrepreneur. I always tell them, you wont do it. They attended the right school, joined the right firm, attained that corner office. As a founder they would give up all that, and their family and friends will tell them that they've made a massive mistake, for years, while it appears that nothing is happening. Then they sheepishly…

No no no, tell them they CAN be an entrepreneur by just giving you $MONEY for $IDEA with $LAX legal terms.

Edit-But more seriously - I totally agree. It is infinitely more difficult to accept a low position for that long to the point of impossibility for many already otherwise established.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#94

Post by dr-detroit » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

_qulr wrote: post #9

This is nothing more than a month old tweet from some random person with generic advice and zero empirical evidence to back it up. Why is this even on Hacker News?

Thats funny you mention that I just read a sports article that was a few sentences linking together a series of atheletes' tweets to attempt to inform me of what happened yesterday in a sporting event. I think twitter killed journalism bro.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#95

Post by ackbar03 » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 2:11 PM UTC

paulsutter wrote: post #84

Folks in the status professions (banking, law,..) often tell me they want to become an entrepreneur. I always tell them, you wont do it. They attended the right school, joined the right firm, attained that corner office. As a founder they would give up all that, and their family and friends will tell them that they've made a massive mistake, for years, while it appears that nothing is happening. Then they sheepishly…

Yes I can totally agree with this, and it can be amplified by your environment, especially in HK where we're pretty much all slaves to our mortgages. I worked in ib and actually quit after I was relocated to Shanghai. My colleagues were a lot more understanding because you could actually feel the pace of technological change a lot more acutely than in a place like Hong Kong. But still most of them would never have the guts to do it themselves, they lose too much for a totally uncertain future and probably wouldn't make it anyways.

And yea I also lived like a bum for a few years after that but I never really cared as much for fine food or whatever it is stuffy banker types lived for anyways

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#96

Post by giantg2 » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 2:12 PM UTC

UK-Al05 wrote: post #70

giantg2 wrote: post #52

I'm low-status. I work on stuff that may never payoff. I will never be successful, and that's ok. I was even told by a manager in my 1-on-1 that not everyone has the potential to be more than a midlevel dev. Also, this low-staus thing is not a great predictor. The hard work that is mentioned is prevalent in many of the studies looking at success. Of course this is part of a matrix of qualities.

That or you can become a mid-level manager...

I'm not qualified. I'd have to jump through about 2 promotions to get into a position where I can post to that level.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#97

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 2:13 PM UTC

esperent wrote: post #92

spicymaki wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about just pure chance? To be born in to the right family, in the right country, to be in the correct field, to have the right idea at the right time. Perhaps the correct path is just luck. We are all rolling the dice here. Just be yourself and do what you find interesting. If it pays off great, if it doesn't that is okay too.

> if it doesn't that is okay too. So for people who find themselves going into dept slavery, unable to feed themselves and their children well, unable to afford healthcare, and so on, you're saying it's all good, just a bad roll of the dice, nothing to worry about? Seems to me more like the system is fundamentally broken if pure chance is all that seperates a millionaire and the destitute and downtrodden.

[deleted]

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#98

Post by pengstrom » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

esperent wrote: post #92

spicymaki wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about just pure chance? To be born in to the right family, in the right country, to be in the correct field, to have the right idea at the right time. Perhaps the correct path is just luck. We are all rolling the dice here. Just be yourself and do what you find interesting. If it pays off great, if it doesn't that is okay too.

> if it doesn't that is okay too. So for people who find themselves going into dept slavery, unable to feed themselves and their children well, unable to afford healthcare, and so on, you're saying it's all good, just a bad roll of the dice, nothing to worry about? Seems to me more like the system is fundamentally broken if pure chance is all that seperates a millionaire and the destitute and downtrodden.

Yes, hence the widespread criticism of capitalism.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#99

Post by jackhack » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 2:17 PM UTC

laurent92 wrote: post #90

m_eiman wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such as "the right parents", which in many cases is a pretty efficient gate keeper.

The social elevator can take 2 generations. And that is ok. There is a lot of things to learn. It gives hope to one’s dad. Sadly inheritance is looked down upon, and people would like every citizen to be born with the same information, and this information being delivered by public education. Sadly, parents teach much better than teachers when it is about the little things that make a life successful. There will neve…

thank you for this insightful view of the importance of family and parental guidance. it adds a lot to the conversation.

Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status

#100

Post by pengstrom » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 2:19 PM UTC

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #67

roenxi wrote: post #7

The more-correct observation is that any well-understood or easy path to becoming high status will be shut down. Most people are not high status, and want to be. It follows that the path has to be either risky, or difficult to comprehend. If hard work were enough, we'd all be in charge. Lots of hard workers out there.

> Lots of hard workers out there. I disagree with this. Never underestimate how many people just don't show up or try at all. Look at average screen time for Americans as a data point. It's a ridiculous 12 hours a day of media usage. Just think about that. People are basically staring at their phones/tvs for 12 out of the 16 waking hours. As I get older I realize more often than not most successful people are not spe…

This is an unfair argument if you're not acknowledging how media is designed to be addictive. Even we technical folk are susceptible. It's a convenient fantasy that the downtrodden deserve their place for being lazy.