PHP 8: Before and After • Hacker News Board

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#51

Post by echelon » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 7:55 AM UTC

awestroke wrote: post #47

spiderfarmer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And even those problems are very far down the line if the business logic results in the expected revenue.

Finding talented developers that want to work on your codebase is a factor in your example. More and more developers are realising they don't want to work with PHP. How much revenue will you get without developers? Go ahead, keep using PHP for your existing multi million dollar product. But using PHP for new projects is not wise.

Recruiting emails from companies that use PHP go straight to trash. Wouldn't even consider it, and I know I'm not alone.

PHP shops won't attract from the same pool of talent. It's not that there aren't good PHP developers, it's that there are so many brilliant engineers that are never going to consider such work.

Languages matter.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#52

Post by diamondo25 » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 7:57 AM UTC

stabbles wrote: post #39

I'm glad you can now write: public static function new(): static { return new static(); } It really brings the point across it's static.

Why didnt they use the term singleton or object?

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#53

Post by hashtagmarkup » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 7:58 AM UTC

stabbles wrote: post #46

brendt_gd wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you're trolling, but FYI the `static` before function has nothing to do with the `static` return type. Like other programming languages the term `static` is used to denote two things.

The term is overloaded, which is a bit unfortunate.

However, the unfortunateness is static.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#54

Post by joseluisq » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 7:59 AM UTC

ptx wrote: post #41

sschueller wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The day you reach perfection is the day you finish your project as in never... PHP works (thought not perfect) lets me get things done.

Lots of languages work and let you get things done. You don't have to choose PHP.

Yeah, It's because certain devs instead of adopting a defensive position in favor of PHP. They don't think in the fact that there are many alternatives of programming languages even superior than PHP for different use cases and exigencies. E.g Lua, Julia, Erlang, Python, even the slow Ruby just to name few of them.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#55

Post by epse » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 7:59 AM UTC

JekLod10 wrote: post #11

So php tries so hard to be Java. Well, just stick with Spring and get the job done professionally. Learning PHP these days is a waste of time.

Oh please don't get so flamewar-y. Admittedly PHP does require some more discipline than most languages and it doesn't look the most elegant, but there are certainly plenty of reasons to use it.

I'll give the example of an internal system I develop for an IT company. Technically, it could be written in whatever, but they explicitly wanted PHP, as do a great many businesses. Why? Because PHP is after plain HTML the absolute simplest to make a server for and if you want to host it externally, it's still simple and really cheap.

There is plenty of demand for PHP for other reasons, and these days, most of these codebases won't even be horrible spaghetti

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#56

Post by pietrovismara » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 8:01 AM UTC

0xy wrote: post #26

pietrovismara wrote: post #15

Seriously, enough with PHP. Can we just let it die? I worked with PHP 5.6 years ago and I hated it. Recently I worked with PHP 7. Heard about all the work that's been done on it and I was kinda excited to try it. It's still so broken. It doesn't matter if they improve performance or add new cool features. PHP is broken in ways that can't be fixed without breaking compatibility. Fork it or put it out of its pain.

This is such a shallow elitist comment. A lot of the common criticisms levied at PHP have been corrected years ago, and PHP is responsible for hundreds of billions of dollars of turnover globally. Of the top 10 websites in the world, PHP is partially or wholly powering more than half of them. Wikipedia, Wordpress, online retail. I have personally created 6 figures of value because I could quickly dump some PHP script…

How can you call this elitism? Nobody forces you to learn PHP, you can learn any of the many other open source existing languages. There's no gatekeeping preventing you from learning languages other than PHP.

I'm just calling it for what it is: a broken tool. I'm suggesting we let go of this broken tool and focus on tools that already work great, instead of wasting millions of human work hours on sub-par coding. Sure, you can still make billions with broken tools, but you could also have done that more easily with the right tools.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#57

Post by admissionsguy » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 8:03 AM UTC

awestroke wrote: post #32

spiderfarmer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who invested "too much" in it don't have to defend it. They'll simply continue using it. They'll enjoy the new functionality. If I make millions upon millions of revenue with a PHP application, I don't care if tech nerds dislike the syntax used to build it.

Syntax is very far down the list of problems with PHP

> list of problems with PHP

(Here we go again.) Such us?

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#58

Post by pietrovismara » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 8:05 AM UTC

AdrianB1 wrote: post #19

pietrovismara wrote: post #15

Seriously, enough with PHP. Can we just let it die? I worked with PHP 5.6 years ago and I hated it. Recently I worked with PHP 7. Heard about all the work that's been done on it and I was kinda excited to try it. It's still so broken. It doesn't matter if they improve performance or add new cool features. PHP is broken in ways that can't be fixed without breaking compatibility. Fork it or put it out of its pain.

Live and let live. There is enough space in this Universe for you and PHP to coexist without interacting, if you don't like it then ignore it.

Yeah that's mostly true, at least until you get a new job and only a few weeks in you find out they have a "small" years old service written in PHP that no one else wants to maintain :)

That's my story, I ignored PHP for years but since I had to work again on it recently and got pretty quickly hit by its "rough edges" I couldn't help but ask myself why such a bad language is still around.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#59

Post by agumonkey » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 8:05 AM UTC

sdfhbdf wrote: post #6

It's becoming kind of an Enterprise language [1]. Don't get me wrong I think PHP is getting cooler, hopefully everybody catches up and the fact that You can have a shared hosting for pennies run Your PHP code really puts it at an advantage compared to others. [1]: https://github.com/joaomilho/Enterprise

PHP started to enterprise the moment they add PSRs IMO. It was no more a scripting language first. It was also at the clean OO push. Very Java like in a way.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#60

Post by mschuster91 » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 8:07 AM UTC

throw_m239339 wrote: post #34

jonwinstanley wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t build websites with Java

> You can’t build websites with Java The (popular) horrors that are Symfony, Laravel, Doctrine and co were all inspired by Java Web frameworks and ORM.

I for one am happy I don't have to manually write database persistence layers any more.