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SETI Institute suspends search for aliens

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Re: SETI Institute suspends search for aliens

#71

Post by JoeAltmaier »

jackowayed wrote: post #19
russell_h wrote: post #10

Searching for aliens seems like the ultimate high risk/high reward investment opportunity. If someone secretly made contact with an advanced extraterrestrial civilization the potential for profit would be huge. On the other hand, good luck executing on that.

I'm not sure there's that much chance for profit even if you do find aliens, at least not directly from the information you'd get from the aliens. These aliens would be many light years away. (absolute minimum ~5, right?) So for a long time you'd just be receiving signals (because it would take at the very least 10 years for your first message to get to them and them to respond). First of all, the signals you'd recei…

Just knowing something is possible is invaluable. "Our space-scouts returned from 6 light-years away yesterday, validating govt funding of this 2-year-old program"

Re: SETI Institute suspends search for aliens

#72

Post by kordless »

javanix wrote: post #70

Just in case anyone didn't bother reading the article - SETI is not calling off all of their searches, just shutting down one of its main radio arrays in Mountain View. Their other time-shared operations sound like they'll continue. Not really sure why people feel like misrepresenting articles like this all the time, but this is one of them.

I think they piggyback on top of the Arecibo scope, but don't get to choose where to point it.

Re: SETI Institute suspends search for aliens

#73

Post by kordless »

This seems like massive mis-management of money. Paul Allen contributed $50M to build the array. Whoever was managing that project should have thought about sticking back 30% or so for running it after it got built. Didn't have enough to build all the scopes? Build a few at a time.

Presumably this is what happens when you don't have clear goals and objectives laid out - and oversight to make sure you don't screw it up.

Pretty sad. They should be asking for new leadership and $20M to run it for 10 years.

Re: SETI Institute suspends search for aliens

#74

Post by adestefan »

kordless wrote: post #73

This seems like massive mis-management of money. Paul Allen contributed $50M to build the array. Whoever was managing that project should have thought about sticking back 30% or so for running it after it got built. Didn't have enough to build all the scopes? Build a few at a time. Presumably this is what happens when you don't have clear goals and objectives laid out - and oversight to make sure you don't screw it u…

With donations you don't always get to allocate money in the most appropriate manner. The $50M could have been directed for construction only or it might have had a fixed split attached (e.g. 75% construction, 25% maintenance).

Re: SETI Institute suspends search for aliens

#76

Post by metageek »

steve19 wrote: post #56
metageek wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're already being loud. We've been leaking radio transmissions into space for the past century.

We have been leaking analog radio transmissions for such a short period of time during the lifetime of the universe that any other life out there would most likely be either underdeveloped or overdeveloped to receive the transmissions. We have barely uttered a sound in the universe.

That's true, but the same would apply to any deliberate attempt to reach other life.

Re: SETI Institute suspends search for aliens

#77

Post by T-hawk »

javanix wrote: post #70

Just in case anyone didn't bother reading the article - SETI is not calling off all of their searches, just shutting down one of its main radio arrays in Mountain View. Their other time-shared operations sound like they'll continue. Not really sure why people feel like misrepresenting articles like this all the time, but this is one of them.

The article misrepresents itself. "Said SETI Director Jill Tarter, 'that a time when we discover so many planets to look at, we don't have the operating funds to listen.'"

It's a pretty naked sympathy appeal for money. "Honestly, if everybody contributed just 3 extra cents on their 1040 tax forms", etc.

Anyone around here familiar with the "Iron Law of Bureaucracy" coined by Jerry Pournelle? For every sufficiently large organization, self-preservation and expansion inevitably crowd out the organization's ostensible purpose. SETI's primary purpose is not to find extraterrestrial intelligence. SETI's primary purpose is to ensure the continued existence of and wages paid to SETI. Actually finding the aliens is a secondary goal.

(I am not ragging on SETI in particular here, that happens for every bureaucracy. The primary purpose of NASA is to get NASA and its contractors hired and paid, not to explore space. The primary purpose of TSA is to get TSA workers hired and paid, not to secure airways. The primary purpose of unions in education is to get themselves hired and paid, not to educate. These organizations do accomplish their stated goals to some and varying degrees of success, but never at any cost of imperiling their own demesne.)

Re: SETI Institute suspends search for aliens

#78

Post by Bud »

stevenj wrote: post #3

This needs to be crowd-sourced. Surely there are 5 million people who'd be willing to donate a dollar each for this.

Given that so many have already helped with SETI@Home and used far more of their resources than $1, I'd say that's definitely true.

For instance, back in the 1990's, I had a NeXT, a couple Apollos, an SGI Challenge, and a few Macs cranking away on SETI@Home blocks, some of those machines running 24/7.

Re: SETI Institute suspends search for aliens

#79

Post by blake8086 »

xnerdr wrote: post #46
robryan wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure with that kind of short term thinking we will never get anywhere. It is far to early to call the investment a failure, in relative timescales it would be like calling a new school a failure because it had a bad first day.

Let's say we get a signal. Then what? Even if we do find a signal, there is no payoff. The money is better invested elsewhere, then, once we are better able to capitalize upon a signal being found, then, we should invest in finding one. Right now, its premature.

I agree with you. Very few people have thought through what would happen if SETI found a clear signal. Say intelligence is only 20 light years away from us and they say "Hi! Here we are!"

What possible step could we take? They are soo far away.

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