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FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

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Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#81

It's great that we don't need FreeBSD to build FreeBSD anymore. In other news, my butcher has finally become a vegetarian. But, joking aside, it's great that FreeBSD has improved Linux KPI layer, improved Linux application compatibility, and has synced their ZFS code with upstream ZFS-on-Linux.

Note that all of those items are about making it easier to start using FreeBSD.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#82

I actually find it bizarre that it can be hard to build code for a particular platform on a different platform machine. Why does compiler logic have to depend on the machine it runs on?

One factor used to be that constant folding can be problematic. The target platform may have different-precision doubles, or have a different way to represent them (fairly unlikely, nowadays, but back in the time, if you wanted to cross-compile to x87, you needed the ability to compute with its 80-bit doubles.

Another that the compiler may use platform tools (assembler, linker) to build binaries, and those tools they may need a library (say one for writing ELF binaries) that isn’t available. All of them can be ported, but that can be a lot of work for a limited number of users.

Moreover, those users typically have (access to) the target hardware, as they have to be able to test the end result. So, a ‘normal’ compiler may not be optimal, but still be good enough for them.

Because of that, you tend to see more cross-compilers the slower the target hardware.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#83

I actually find it bizarre that it can be hard to build code for a particular platform on a different platform machine. Why does compiler logic have to depend on the machine it runs on?

Because it’s not just building a program, it’s about bootstrapping the whole operating system. The process begins with building some FreeBSD tools used by the build process; the you need the FreeBSD compiler, since host compiler obviously can’t create FreeBSD executables, and so on.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I used git-svn for this purpose. Didn't have any issues.

> ... some help pages on the web are still recommending git-svn as a conversion tool for migrating Subversion repositories to git. DO NOT DO THIS. You may damage your history badly if you do. -- http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6778 (2015-05-28)

ESR is a little grandiose. Note he doesn't give much detail, just say that it will bite you and you should listen to his assertions because he has done it more than anyone in the world.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WSL2 is a VM...

It is but it's an incredibly well integrated VM that's transparent to the user. I'm genuinely very, very happy developing on Windows with WSL2.

Does it support hardware performance counters needed for profiling yet? Or GPU acceleration?

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#86
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux on Windows might work really well … and be the superior experience in total for lots of people. No, it will not and — without massive changes at Microsoft and in Windows — will never be. Source: have a Windows box, am repeatedly amazed at how bad it is. Seriously, it is embarrassing to use Windows. I think the only reason people enjoy it is the fact that they have not gotten a chance to really spend time in a…

> Linux is head and shoulders above Windows on the desktop When plug-and-play, drivers, and power management work correctly. When business software is compatible. When you don't have to search through obscure forums or jump on FreeNode to figure out why your wireless card doesn't work. When your filesystem corrupts and won't boot because you didn't shut it down correctly. When your font anti-aliasing and resolution s…

Sorry man, it's not that Linux is so superior. It's just that Windows is such a raging dumpster fire that I question the sanity of those using it voluntarily.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#87

I actually find it bizarre that it can be hard to build code for a particular platform on a different platform machine. Why does compiler logic have to depend on the machine it runs on?

I imagine it's mostly build system scripting. FreeBSD builds using makefiles, and the BSD make is not the same as GNU make, especially for the sometimes-complicated scripting they have to do inside of them. Adding cross-compilation to a complicated set of makefiles isn't impossible but can be some work. Beyond that there are other issues... eg. The ELF binaries generated need to declare themselves as FreeBSD binaries…

> I imagine it's mostly build system scripting.

NetBSD has had this[0] for ~20 years (requiring only POSIX conformance from the build host). Think of it as a sort of first principle[1] in action. I wouldn’t be surprised if FreeBSD could achieve some success leaning on this work.

[0] http://www.mewburn.net/luke/papers/build.sh.pdf

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_principle

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#88
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In other news, my butcher has finally become a vegetarian. That happened in Grenoble, France: The guy behind "La bouche'rit" ("The mouth laughs", a pun on "boucherie", the butchery), a vegan restaurant, was a previously a butcher.

I've heard of vegans / vegetarians running cattle farms as well.

Smart dealers don't use the product themselves.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#89

"On the Git front, their transitioning from Subversion to Git they hope to have a beta repository by the end of October." Their migration from Subversion to Git also provided the motive for the murder mystery book "git commit murder" by Michael W. Lucas.

I think LLVM and WebKit are moving to Git / Github as well.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#90
post #10
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a non-zero chance WSL will make desktop Linux completely irrelevant even for developers.

it's called "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish"

Embrace is when they grudgingly agree to support something lame. Extend is when they improve it. Extinguish is when so many people prefer it that their improved version dominates the market.

That is "Extinguish" is not Microsoft forcing you to stop using Linux it's Microsoft making Windows so good that you no longer want to use Linux.

Linux users think improving things so people like them is bad, because Linux has a culture where you have to suffer the difficulties as a hazing ritual to prove your geek cred, and if you like popular, convenient, easy, pleasant, non-technical, user-or-business focused features that's inherently a "luser" attitude and a person to be scorned.

That is, people who run around the internet fearmongering "Embrace,Extend,Extinguish" are simultaneously criticising Microsoft for making software so bad that nobody wants to use it and losing market share and desperately clutching at popularist straws, while at the same time terrified that Microsoft will make software so good not only will it dominate the market, but they peronsally will find it irresistable and be unable to muster the religious willpower to stick with Linux when faced with the temptation of something better.

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