If granted a pardon by the current or future US president, is there any chance that Russia will not let him return home?
Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
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Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s an easy PR win. The US behaves like a petulant child, and Russia can come off like the benevolent country protecting freedom. That seems like an extremely easy decision to make.
Pardon Snowden and Assange. Let all the dirt about all the high level people come out no matter how dark dirty or ugly they are, only then does US can start to establish some legitimacy on the world stage.
yeah of course not, but then US just going to destroy their brand and image on the world stage, more and more country will start to move away from US.
Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
(playing devil's advocate) you could make the argument that the suspicion that domestic surveillance was at that level was almost as high (if not higher).
Except that people saying this was happening were labeled as conspiracy theorists by many. This is what people always forget when they pull out the "Yeah but we already knew that" no you didn't, you might have suspected it but there would always be plenty of people ready to shout you down saying "We don't know that for sure", "That has not been confirmed", "Take off your tin-foil hat". I'd wager that the people clutc…
Clinton's "we were already having these discussions" had me tempted to vote for Trump in 2016. Until Trump gave his position on the matter, which managed to be worse.
Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#74I seriously hope that the President gives Snowden a pardon even it as a dick move on his way out. His releases were far less dangerous than Manning but I think his problem is no compelling story to distract from his actions and he did step on a lot of toes. Toes that deserved to be stomped.
I upvoted you because you merely posted your opinion, with which I agree. His actions did result in loss of trust in the US from foreign governments and people but I think his main intent was to alert the American people to what their government is doing. I consider him a patriot and my only regret is that he was trapped in Russia though I'm not sure his plans to travel to South America would have panned out.
It's a dilemma, he broke the law to expose what he believed was an unethical, overly excessive, and later ruled illegal [1] surveillance program.
In pardoning him would more people feel motivated to become whistleblowers, possibly with different outcomes? How dangerous would that be?
If he's not pardoned, what message does it pass to future generations?
[1] "U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal". Reuters. Retrieved September 2, 2020. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-nsa-spying/us-court-m...
Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#75Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#76The Greatest Country On Earth™ has its citizens flee to the Empire Of Evil™ just so they can speak a simple truth without being imprisoned or called a traitor. The incompetent bureaucrats in charge of Snowden's prosecution made him a martyr instead. Those people are massive fuckups even at playing bad guys and you trust them to operate an Orwellian surveillance and suppression system? Good luck with that.
> The Greatest Country On Earth™ has its citizens flee to the Empire Of Evil™
I’m not saying the US is white and Russia is black here, but you’re insinuating that there’s some kind of conspiracy to make Russia look bad when they’re in quite a lot of objective measurements really are. I think most people understand that when you’re in Snowden’s situation, you don’t really have the luxury of choice.
Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#77If granted a pardon by the current or future US president, is there any chance that Russia will not let him return home?
I think that's unknowable / up to the whims of Russia.
Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#78I seriously hope that the President gives Snowden a pardon even it as a dick move on his way out. His releases were far less dangerous than Manning but I think his problem is no compelling story to distract from his actions and he did step on a lot of toes. Toes that deserved to be stomped.
Snowden was never found guilty of anything, so the President can't pardon him. And Presidential authority doesn't extend to say "Whatever he did, this country forgives him" in the absence of a guilty verdict. It's commonly thought to, but the actual result is unknown; a subsequent President's authority to arrest him on his "pardoned" actions and try him for commission of crime under the theory that one cannot be pard…
That's not true. Nixon was preemptively pardoned by Ford with no charges pending.
Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#79Due to the extent of mil intelligence docs stolen, and since the domestic programs deployed were lawful at the time, whistleblower is a disingenuious title for Mr. Snowden. Putting aside domestic disclosures, it's difficult to see how the scope of stolen materials merits praise or euphemistic titles. Snowden is a fugitive. As it pertains to the majority of what was stolen, he is not a whistleblower, but a thief. Had…
If the government wanted anyone outside of natsec or the IC to care about this, they shouldn't have operated a massive unconstitutional dragnet. That would change the tenor of discussion, I promise.
Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#80The Greatest Country On Earth™ has its citizens flee to the Empire Of Evil™ just so they can speak a simple truth without being imprisoned or called a traitor. The incompetent bureaucrats in charge of Snowden's prosecution made him a martyr instead. Those people are massive fuckups even at playing bad guys and you trust them to operate an Orwellian surveillance and suppression system? Good luck with that.
While I don't agree with every way that the case against Snowden was handled, I don't agree with the thought that things would be much different if the two sides were flipped. The general attitude towards Snowden is too black and white in my opinion. Traitors can be heroes, too. They are not mutually exclusive.