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Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

reuters.com

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Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#11

Post by toomuchtodo »

wavefunction wrote: post #7
Shivetya wrote: post #2

I seriously hope that the President gives Snowden a pardon even it as a dick move on his way out. His releases were far less dangerous than Manning but I think his problem is no compelling story to distract from his actions and he did step on a lot of toes. Toes that deserved to be stomped.

I upvoted you because you merely posted your opinion, with which I agree. His actions did result in loss of trust in the US from foreign governments and people but I think his main intent was to alert the American people to what their government is doing. I consider him a patriot and my only regret is that he was trapped in Russia though I'm not sure his plans to travel to South America would have panned out.

Agreed. We (the public) should never give up attempting to obtain a pardon for him.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#12

Post by rorykoehler »

Simulacra wrote: post #4
Shivetya wrote: post #2

I seriously hope that the President gives Snowden a pardon even it as a dick move on his way out. His releases were far less dangerous than Manning but I think his problem is no compelling story to distract from his actions and he did step on a lot of toes. Toes that deserved to be stomped.

Both put lives at risk for what has apparently achieved zero gain. I don’t want Snowden to have a pardon, and I think he and Manning both belong in prison.

Don't blame the messenger. The risk was created and perpetuated by a mafia style government on both counts.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#14

Post by StavrosK »

Simulacra wrote: post #4
Shivetya wrote: post #2

I seriously hope that the President gives Snowden a pardon even it as a dick move on his way out. His releases were far less dangerous than Manning but I think his problem is no compelling story to distract from his actions and he did step on a lot of toes. Toes that deserved to be stomped.

Both put lives at risk for what has apparently achieved zero gain. I don’t want Snowden to have a pardon, and I think he and Manning both belong in prison.

I wonder if people who think this would have the same opinion of someone who revealed classified documents about government surveillance or ethnic cleansing in China. Or is it only bad when it's our government's misdeeds that are being exposed?

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#15

Post by wlesieutre »

jdc wrote: post #9
Simulacra wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both put lives at risk for what has apparently achieved zero gain. I don’t want Snowden to have a pardon, and I think he and Manning both belong in prison.

How is revealing systemic domestic surveillance at zero value in your mind?

Not to mention this formerly secret mass surveillance program has been making its way through the courts and the Ninth Circuit court of appeals found it to have been illegal, that the NSA has been lying about it for years, and that they were additionally lying when they said it helped convict several terrorist supporters.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-nsa-spying/u-s-court-...

> Evidence that the NSA was secretly building a vast database of U.S. telephone records - the who, the how, the when, and the where of millions of mobile calls - was the first and arguably the most explosive of the Snowden revelations published by the Guardian newspaper in 2013.

> Up until that moment, top intelligence officials publicly insisted the NSA never knowingly collected information on Americans at all. After the program’s exposure, U.S. officials fell back on the argument that the spying had played a crucial role in fighting domestic extremism, citing in particular the case of four San Diego residents who were accused of providing aid to religious fanatics in Somalia.

> U.S. officials insisted that the four - Basaaly Saeed Moalin, Ahmed Nasir Taalil Mohamud, Mohamed Mohamud, and Issa Doreh - were convicted in 2013 thanks to the NSA’s telephone record spying, but the Ninth Circuit ruled Wednesday that those claims were “inconsistent with the contents of the classified record.”

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#16

Post by chrisco255 »

Shivetya wrote: post #2

I seriously hope that the President gives Snowden a pardon even it as a dick move on his way out. His releases were far less dangerous than Manning but I think his problem is no compelling story to distract from his actions and he did step on a lot of toes. Toes that deserved to be stomped.

The president can't pre-pardon him though. He'd have to go to trial first.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#17

Post by jancsika »

Simulacra wrote: post #4
Shivetya wrote: post #2

I seriously hope that the President gives Snowden a pardon even it as a dick move on his way out. His releases were far less dangerous than Manning but I think his problem is no compelling story to distract from his actions and he did step on a lot of toes. Toes that deserved to be stomped.

Both put lives at risk for what has apparently achieved zero gain. I don’t want Snowden to have a pardon, and I think he and Manning both belong in prison.

> Both put lives at risk for what has apparently achieved zero gain.

So, future impact affects your assessment of the righteousness of an act of conscience? How does that work?

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#19

Post by dnautics »

jdc wrote: post #9
Simulacra wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both put lives at risk for what has apparently achieved zero gain. I don’t want Snowden to have a pardon, and I think he and Manning both belong in prison.

How is revealing systemic domestic surveillance at zero value in your mind?

(playing devil's advocate) you could make the argument that the suspicion that domestic surveillance was at that level was almost as high (if not higher).

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#20

Post by dragonwriter »

chrisco255 wrote: post #16
Shivetya wrote: post #2

I seriously hope that the President gives Snowden a pardon even it as a dick move on his way out. His releases were far less dangerous than Manning but I think his problem is no compelling story to distract from his actions and he did step on a lot of toes. Toes that deserved to be stomped.

The president can't pre-pardon him though. He'd have to go to trial first.

That's completely false[0], no such condition exists in the Constitution and people (for the most famous, Nixon) have been pardoned without charges, much less trial.

[0] On further reflection, that's probably overstated. While there is no such express condition in the Constitution, and pardons have been issued in such circumstances (including the famous Nixon pardon), none of them have been challenged (such as by a later attempt to prosecute despite the pardon) in a way which caused a court to rule on their effect, and there are cases where the question of the Constitutionality of pre-conviction pardons has been raised, though those cases were resolved on other grounds. So it should probably be acknowledged that the claim that a pardon requires trial and conviction is an active legal theory, though one without positive support in case law, and one which the actual practical use of pardons in the US has not been consistent with to this point.

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