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We deleted the production database by accident

keepthescore.co

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Re: We deleted the production database by accident

#451

Post by Talinx »

jonplackett wrote: post #448
Talinx wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To stop the cause from happening is not always feasible. It might also be against human rights.

Not always but a lot of crime seems like it could be avoided if more effort were put into prevention - better funding for education etc. It’s not rocket science.

I agree, there are things that can and should be done to prevent crime.

But good prevention is really hard, education being a good example. Today most people have internet access and you can educate yourself there (Wikipedia, Khan Academy, YouTube...). Access to education is not a problem - getting people to educate themselves is. Nerds do it on their own, many don't. It takes individual effort to get children's minds to learn. You need teachers who like teaching and can get children excited about the world. It's not as easy as giving everyone an iPad, funding without understanding the problems doesn't work. (I guess there are situations where funding easily solves problems depending on your country and school.)

(I'm not against funding education, I just wish it would happen in a smarter way.)

Re: We deleted the production database by accident

#452

Post by pc86 »

janoc wrote: post #269
t0mas88 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The software sector needs a bit of aviation safety culture: 50 years ago the conclusion "pilot error" as the main cause was virtually banned from accident investigation. The new mindset is that any system or procedure where a single human error can cause an incident is a broken system. So the blame isn't on the human pressing the button, the problem is the button or procedure design being unsuitable. The result was a…

It is not only that but also realizing that there is never a single cause to an accident or incident. Even when it was a suicidal pilot flying the plane into a mountain on purpose. Someone had to supervise him (there are two crew members in the cockpit for a reason), someone gave him a medical, there is automation in the cockpit that could have at least caused an alarm, etc. So even when the accident is ultimately ca…

I was on a cross-country United flight ca. 2015 or so and happened to sitting right in the front of first class and got to see the pilots take a bathroom break (bear with me). The process was incredibly interesting.

1. With the flight deck door closed, the three flight attendants place a drink cart between first class and the attendant area/crew bathroom. There's now a ~4.5' barrier locked against the frame of the plane.

2. The flight deck door is opened; one flight attendant goes into the flight deck while one pilot uses the restroom. The flight deck door is left open but the attendant is standing right next to it (but facing the lone pilot). The other two attendants stand against the drink cart, one facing the passengers and one facing the flight deck.

3. Pilots switch while the third attendant remains on the flight deck.

4. After both pilots are done, the flight deck door is closed and locked and the drink cart is returned to where ever they store it.

Any action by a passenger would cause the flight deck door to be closed and locked. Any action by the lone pilot would cause alarm by the flight deck attendant. Any action by the flight deck attendant would cause alarm by the other two.

Re: We deleted the production database by accident

#453

Post by pc86 »

jonplackett wrote: post #425
janoc wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not only that but also realizing that there is never a single cause to an accident or incident. Even when it was a suicidal pilot flying the plane into a mountain on purpose. Someone had to supervise him (there are two crew members in the cockpit for a reason), someone gave him a medical, there is automation in the cockpit that could have at least caused an alarm, etc. So even when the accident is ultimately ca…

It’s interesting that this is the exact opposite of how we think about crime and punishment. All criminals are like the pilot, just the person who did the action. But the reasons for them becoming criminals is a seldom taken into account. The emphasis is on blaming and punishing them rather than figuring out the cause and stopping it happening again.

Most airplane crashes aren't intentional.

When's the last time someone accidentally committed armed robbery?

Re: We deleted the production database by accident

#454

Post by jonplackett »

pc86 wrote: post #453
jonplackett wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting that this is the exact opposite of how we think about crime and punishment. All criminals are like the pilot, just the person who did the action. But the reasons for them becoming criminals is a seldom taken into account. The emphasis is on blaming and punishing them rather than figuring out the cause and stopping it happening again.

Most airplane crashes aren't intentional. When's the last time someone accidentally committed armed robbery?

Lots of people would probably rather not commit crime. Not everyone, but a lot of crime is people who see no other way. People society usually failed while they were children. It’s still all a big system. If you don’t change the cause you’ll continue to get the same results. Even someone actively committing crime like the armed robber you describe are still part of that. Motivation is just the affect of previous events. You can say this without condoning criminal acts.

Re: We deleted the production database by accident

#455

Post by hightekredneck »

qz2 wrote: post #259
skrebbel wrote: post #240

I'm appalled at the way some people here receive an honest postmortem of a human fuck-up. The top 3 comments, as I write this, can be summarized as "no, it's your fault and you're stupid for making the fault". This is not good! We don't want to scare people into writing less of these. We want to encourage people to write more of them. An MBA style "due to a human error, we lost a day of your data, we're tremendously…

I disagree. Culturally speaking we like to pat people on their back when they do something stupid and comfort them. But most of the time this isn’t productive because it doesn’t instil the requisite fear required when working out what decision to make. What happens is we have growing complacency and disassociation from consequences. Do you press the button on something potentially destructive because your are confide…

Exactly right.

The "comfort" will come from taking responsibility and owning and correcting the problem such that you have confidence it won't happen again.

Platitudes to make someone feel better without action helps nobody.

The fear is a valuable feedback mechanism and shouldn't been ignored. It's there to remind you of the potential consequences of a careless fuckup.

Lots here misunderstood this I think.. clearly the point is not to berate people for making mistakes or to foster a "fear culture" insofar as fear of personal attack but rather to not ignore the internal/personal fear of fucking up because you give a shit.

Re: We deleted the production database by accident

#456

Post by gcc_programmer »

azeirah wrote: post #351
gcc_programmer wrote: post #283

The maturity of the article is laughable. I'm sure my age is the same as the people who wrote it, but this is unacceptable: dropping databases in prod is a serious issue, not a joke. I think the culture of the company is toxic and not professional at any level. #change-my-mind

It's one individual's side-project, chill.

It's not a side project, it's a production database owned by a company... I hope I never have to use products you buils either...
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