Debian donation for Peertube development • Hacker News Board

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#101

Post by olau » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 4:04 PM UTC

dewey wrote: post #27

feralimal wrote: post #6

This is so heart warming. Thanks to Debian and wow - Framasoft (who I'd never heard of) has a page that is so on point!! Amazing. Someone doing something to stop the book burning (comment deletion in the billions) and censorship at youtube. I wish there was more of this.

> Someone doing something to stop the book burning (comment deletion in the billions) and censorship at youtube. What kind of content is getting "censored" on YouTube?

Several years old example: a local forum for mothers were discussing an acute breast feeding problem one of them had (stuck milk), and one of them uploaded a video showing how to massage the milk out of a breast.

That was quickly banned as inappropriate. Probably because you could see a nipple. I think she uploaded it to Vimeo instead when they found out.

That example certainly taught me to think of Youtube more as a cache than as a storage, if that makes any sense.

It also came across as oppressive. The fear of the nipple winning over basic human issues.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#102

Post by parliament32 » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 4:54 PM UTC

tpxl wrote: post #50

Sesse__ wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10,000 euros isn't a lot of money. Yet, it would pay for 100TB+/month of bandwidth for 10–20 years at current market rates (which are bound to only go down). That should be ample for Debconf's streaming needs, without offloading the bandwidth cost onto its viewers and incurring significant complexity in the process.

I have unlimited 10Mbps (~3TB/month if my math is correct) connection that's costing me nothing to fully utilize. Where do I sign up to help debian? What I'm saying is, "offloading the bandwidth cost" is bullshit because there is no cost.

Seed the Debian image torrents: https://www.debian.org/CD/torrent-cd/

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#103

Post by zrm » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

tpxl wrote: post #50

Sesse__ wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10,000 euros isn't a lot of money. Yet, it would pay for 100TB+/month of bandwidth for 10–20 years at current market rates (which are bound to only go down). That should be ample for Debconf's streaming needs, without offloading the bandwidth cost onto its viewers and incurring significant complexity in the process.

I have unlimited 10Mbps (~3TB/month if my math is correct) connection that's costing me nothing to fully utilize. Where do I sign up to help debian? What I'm saying is, "offloading the bandwidth cost" is bullshit because there is no cost.

> I have unlimited 10Mbps (~3TB/month if my math is correct) connection that's costing me nothing to fully utilize. Where do I sign up to help debian?

https://www.debian.org/mirror/ftpmirror

> What I'm saying is, "offloading the bandwidth cost" is bullshit because there is no cost.

There is "no cost" if you use a P2P distribution technology. If you want to distribute hundreds of megabytes to each of a million users using some centralized cloud provider, prepare to open your wallet.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#104

Post by j4nt4b » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:05 PM UTC

danmur wrote: post #72

roenxi wrote: post #8

10,000 euros isn't a lot of money. I'm going to interpret the enthusiastic upvoting of this post as being more about what it implies when steady and serious collectives like the Debian project start signalling that something is important. There needs to be better software infrastructure and it needs to be open source (and, indeed, free). It is hard not to like Debian. It is wonderful to see that focused, principled,…

It's not a fortune but ignoring the actual money: * It's publicity for peertube, here and other places * It could get a good chunk of useful development done if used correctly * It's an endorsement from a trusted body that might help build awareness and momentum I realised at the last second my last comment was about peertube too :). I have no stake but I'd love YouTube alternatives.

Another benefit that comes to mind is having experienced stakeholders guiding a newer organization through growing pains in good faith.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#105

Post by boogies » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:05 PM UTC

boogies wrote: post #94

spijdar wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems the problem here isn't Youtube, though -- it's the ad networks. As great and beneficial as shifting to a p2p distribution model outside of Google is, I'm not sure how it defeats this "censorship", as you go from "Advertisers don't want to pay for ad placements on x/y/z controversial topic and Google won't promote me!" to simply having no revenue model and no promotion. You would need to start finding third p…

> It seems the problem here isn't Youtube, though -- it's the ad networks. > As great and beneficial as shifting to a p2p distribution model outside of Google is, I'm not sure how it defeats this "censorship", as you go from "Advertisers don't want to pay for ad placements on x/y/z controversial topic and Google won't promote me!" to simply having no revenue model and no promotion. I don’t think the problem commented…

Actually looking back at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24857606 I realize the problem commented on there definitely was about demonetization and shadowbanning. Sorry.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#106

Post by mongol » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

usr1106 wrote: post #36

cpach wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I meant in terms of cost for the employer. As they have to pay additional taxes on top of the salary. E.g. the so called “employer’s fee” and pension fees (tjänstepension) and stuff like that. BTW, if you want to go into details, feel free to shoot me an email.

The additional mandatory fees are around 30% https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbetsgivaravgifter_i_Sverig... So with 4 kEUR gross salary you end up at 5.2 kEUR cash costs. Then there are also non-cash costs, like 5 weeks of paid holidays (or did unions actually achieve the 6th one? It's 30 years I lived in Sweden...) And you might need an office, equipment, and what not. So the cost can easily be 6-7 kEUR even if the…

Yes. An employer must also take into account the average sick time per employee and year, since it pays for sick pay day 2 - 14 when the employee is sick. That is an another contribution to the 2x ballpark number.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#107

Post by fsflover » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

type0 wrote: post #2

Are there other associations similar to Framasoft? In Europe or across the globe.

You could probably check the list of organizations supporting "Public Money - Public Code" campaign:

https://publiccode.eu/ (list at the bottom of the page).

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#108

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

monkin wrote: post #63

What a waste of money that could go to projects really worth it, and not a service with pirated anime, tv shows, lingerie models, and very bad LGBT or religious content. Who even taught this could be a good idea?

[deleted]

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#109

Post by e12e » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

mymythisisthis wrote: post #93

stereolambda wrote: post #90

A couple observations: 1. Peertube and other fediverse software are examples of living AGPL projects. In recent weeks there was some discussion on this license, and people claiming "no one would want to contribute". My thinking is that AGPL today is where GPL was, I dunno, 20 years ago in terms of attitude of the industry ( not friendly ) and significance to the user (actual suppression of user-hostile behavior... of…

Here are the three problems with video; 1) Governments take pornography seriously. Therefore making a video sharing site always draws attention, as they'll get abused. 2) Along with pornography are videos that are racist, teach about bomb making, conspiracies, are anti-government. These also draw the ire of government. 3) The monetary value of videos is all over the place. Most videos aren't worth anything, except to…

> teach about bomb making

Really? I remember there was a lot of hoopla around "the anarchist cookbook" - but was it actually ever taken down anywhere?

I remember using dead tree lexicons as an example in a short class on technology and society - most of them have a lot of information on black powder. I used it to compare and contrast what a simple online search will turn up.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#110

Post by hinkley » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

richardARPANET wrote: post #12

IMO, PeerTube will never become popular due to its decentralized nature.

Define popular.

There is a huge field between 'sustainable' and 'populist' and if we want choice and quality in the world we need to vote with our feet and dollars and ballots for alternative solutions that are big enough for people to not giggle at, but small enough that they can maintain some conceptual coherence.

We need an 'Apple' (a 10% competitor that has enough quality and mindshare to go on for years or decades) in lots of verticals if we want to keep a market place for new ideas. Better still if we had a 5% and a 10% alternative.

The 10% guy you have to watch and emulate. The 5% guy you can audit occasionally looking for ideas to cherry pick. The 85% still benefit from what the 15% are doing.