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Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

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111–120 of 172 posts

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#111
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author of a comment can tell if it's been upvoted - no one else. I really wouldn't like to see comment threads full of posts similar to yours; it lowers the signal:noise.

Obviously it would be terrible if everyone posted 'I agree' comments, that's the point. Numbers show the viewers sentiment towards a comment without clogging the thread.

It is self-evidently true that removing visible comment scores mostly removes methods for trivially measuring "viewer sentiment". It is the contention of those in support of non-visible comment scores that trivial measurement of viewer sentiment harms, rather than aids, discussion. You have made no argument against that point.

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#112
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Points should be normed by impressions, and then smoothed (or given credibility intervals or something). I agree that this might work better for determining correctness of informative comments than just plain point scores, however point scores work better than nothing at all.

If someone states something that's incorrect, reply to the comment and explain why! ;)

But often there are multiple replies with opposing opinions. Without the points we don't know which opinion HN agrees with.

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#113
post #97

How about allocating a 'hotness' quotient to comments? At the moment, a comment that's down-voted past zero becomes lighter. Perhaps very popular comments could be made more visible, or highlighted? I think this kind of fuzzy indication of popularity might be a good compromise.

I agree. One of the more useful things I used comment scores for was to be sure to avoid missing useful comments that were down low on the page. Having a mechanism for setting apart well-regarded comments would be useful.

It would likely have to be normalized based on the score of the submission or the total number of comments on that submission, though, which might be more complexity than pg wants.

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#114

Since I registered a username here on HN 890 days ago, I've seen a lot of comments about comment karma and about upvoting and downvoting. The most significant statement I have seen about comment voting here on HN was posted recently by pg, the founder of HN, in a thread-opening post 22 days ago titled "Ask HN: How to stave off decline of HN?" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2403696 He wrote, "The problem has seve…

One of the big assumptions that's being made here is that people are dumb calculators.

I can tell the difference between a stupid comment that got a lot of points for being stupid, and a useful comment that got a lot of points for being useful.

When I look at amazon and see that twilight has 3000 5 star ratings, I don't assume this means it's a great piece of literature, but it is useful information to me: it's a popular book.

Same goes for comments.

I'm not stupid, I can tell the difference between "popular because it's funny/pandering" and "popular because it's useful"

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so why cant we start down voting with less karma, as opposed to now it being 500. so more people could counteract your issue. AND i think that if a comment has more upvotes, then they DID win the argument and that should be seen that they won.

I think you're missing the point. Logic wins arguments not upvotes.

Yes, logic wins arguments, but to continue with metaphors, I'm sure you have heard of the halting problem. Without upvotes, the thread will go on forever. Vote counts allows for closure. So threads are shorter and I'm happy to extract more information faster.

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#116
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see how agreeable a comment is by how far up the page it is. I think having the scores hidden is a good decision. It means that we concentrate on content rather than a 'karma game'. " "that is not how mysql works" with 2 Points And "that is not how mysql works" with 102 points Are not the same piece of info. " In my opinion, both of those comments are bad comments unless they further qualify the statement. I…

Just expand the example: pretend it was "that is not the way mysql works blah blah explanation". I agree that I don't want to read this if it has 2 points but I do if it has 100.

So many of the discussions around these points here center around the "TL;DR" point of view.

I wonder how these people ever managed to make it through a newspaper without scores telling them which articles are worth it.

Learn to survey, skim, and dive in. All your endeavors will be the better for it.

PS. Your method (don't read if don't like score) also ensures you won't be soiled by accidentally reading an unpopular but truthful point of view.

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#117
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet clearly people do compare scores. The problem is that scores aren't like trends; they're like integrating a 'popularity' measure over time. As a consequence, you get a strong bias towards the stuff with the most points being comments from near the beginning of the discussion, not what's most correct or interesting or insightful.

Since I can't see your score, and you can't see mine, I honestly have no idea at this point whether more people agree with you than with me. Or indeed if no-one cares at all. When this thread is referenced to a week from now there is no way to see what sort of agreement occurred with either one of us. There are a bunch of "for" comments, and a bunch of "against" comments, but ultimately no resolution (that either of…

> Since I can't see your score, and you can't see mine, I honestly have no idea at this point whether more people agree with you than with me... When this thread is referenced to a week from now there is no way to see what sort of agreement occurred with either one of us.

It's almost as though the future reader would need to form an opinion... for themselves.

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my dilemma, and based on pg's recent poll may be part of why that vote was split. Basically, I feel that I'm interacting more intelligently but receiving less value from the conversation. I feeling that I am contributing differently, assessing comments more on merit and adding my own thoughts less. I'm certainly voting on comments less (both up and down). But I find I lack context in many of those discussions…

How do you vote down?

It's 500 Karma.

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#119
post #112
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone states something that's incorrect, reply to the comment and explain why! ;)

But often there are multiple replies with opposing opinions. Without the points we don't know which opinion HN agrees with.

HN isn't an entity - and you can't rely on aggregation to form an opinion. You still need to think and form your own opinions.

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#120
post #25

People can be wrong about things, and comment scores are useful information that helps us know if they are. "that is not how mysql works" with 2 Points And "that is not how mysql works" with 102 points Are not the same piece of info. I don't see any benefit to hiding this from people. It also helps newbies understand the customs here (they can get feedback on other people's comments) edit now that I'm not on my phone…

All comment scores do is reveal the inner workings of the site. HN already has an algorithm to turn vote count and time since posting into relevance, that's how we order posts now. Perhaps that could be a bit more fine grained, so that you can know more easily to skip barely upvoted leaf nodes, but all seeing the vote score does is let you replace that algorithm with your own internal one.

You are absolutely right though about source links on Google. They give us context for Google's ordering. While Google has done the work to return the best ordering of results possible, which might be the best results in the average case (though maybe not) site have earned a personal reputation for us. Personally, I know that I don't want to check the expertsexchange.com sites, so I skip over them.

I think that what HN would benefit greatly from is a more codified personal reputation system. Right now, the only way we have that is by learning to recognize the names of HN posters which, for me, has only happened with a precious few of the most prolific and respected. If HN would only give me some indication that I had up (or down) voted this commenter n number of times in the past, that would be far more useful than displaying the current vote count. It would allow me to discover whose voices I like, and who I might ignore.

I recognize that not having this is part of the design of HN. Instead we are encouraged to consider every comment fresh, without any context. It's a meritocracy of comments. I don't have much answer to that, other than to say that I would really like to see people be able to earn a good reputation. It would make the community feel a bit smaller and closer.

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