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Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

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Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#71

Post by rexreed »

awakeasleep wrote: post #30

I really like the lack of comment scores. Things are still sorted, so the cream floats to the top, and it made me realize I felt group-impulses based on the score. Now, there is little to no incentive to one-up someone, and I don't consider people refuted based on their score, but rather based on what I think of their comment. That last part has nurtured my curiosity, I find myself exploring thoughts I didn't on the…

I believe that I can make a fair determination of the quality of a comment without the need for scores. heck, I do that every day in my job. I think scores incentivize the wrong behavior.

In fact, I think the general quality of comments has improved since the comment score mechanism has been removed.

Of course, that's the wonderful aspect of comments - we are all free to disagree.

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#72

Post by RossM »

JacobAldridge wrote: post #51
awakeasleep wrote: post #30

I really like the lack of comment scores. Things are still sorted, so the cream floats to the top, and it made me realize I felt group-impulses based on the score. Now, there is little to no incentive to one-up someone, and I don't consider people refuted based on their score, but rather based on what I think of their comment. That last part has nurtured my curiosity, I find myself exploring thoughts I didn't on the…

This is my dilemma, and based on pg's recent poll may be part of why that vote was split. Basically, I feel that I'm interacting more intelligently but receiving less value from the conversation. I feeling that I am contributing differently, assessing comments more on merit and adding my own thoughts less. I'm certainly voting on comments less (both up and down). But I find I lack context in many of those discussions…

Perhaps they should be visible for the author only?

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#74

Post by dexen »

Please do.

But also, please split upvotes from downvotes. There's a huge difference between a +25 / - 24 comment (apparently a controversial one) and +1 / -0 (probably a mediocre one).

Or perhaps, display only upvotes, and use some weighted form of (UPVOTE * U_WEIGHT - DOWNVOTE * D_WEIGHT) for positioning the comment among other ones.

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#75

Post by smhinsey »

lwhi wrote: post #38
blhack wrote: post #25

People can be wrong about things, and comment scores are useful information that helps us know if they are. "that is not how mysql works" with 2 Points And "that is not how mysql works" with 102 points Are not the same piece of info. I don't see any benefit to hiding this from people. It also helps newbies understand the customs here (they can get feedback on other people's comments) edit now that I'm not on my phone…

You can see how agreeable a comment is by how far up the page it is. I think having the scores hidden is a good decision. It means that we concentrate on content rather than a 'karma game'. " "that is not how mysql works" with 2 Points And "that is not how mysql works" with 102 points Are not the same piece of info. " In my opinion, both of those comments are bad comments unless they further qualify the statement. I…

I'd be curious to see how this approach compares to the opposite, which strikes me as being more effective at reducing karma gaming. I.e., your own karma is invisible but you can see everyone else's.

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#76

Post by bruce511 »

abeppu wrote: post #58
blhack wrote: post #25

People can be wrong about things, and comment scores are useful information that helps us know if they are. "that is not how mysql works" with 2 Points And "that is not how mysql works" with 102 points Are not the same piece of info. I don't see any benefit to hiding this from people. It also helps newbies understand the customs here (they can get feedback on other people's comments) edit now that I'm not on my phone…

But two comments with equal points given at different times on the same thread are likely not equally informative; the newer one had fewer impressions but receiving the same points has a higher points to views ratio. Part of the problem with points is that people try to use them like you are -- to gauge agreement for correctness, or who 'won' a discussion or whatever -- but points are a really crappy indicator of tha…

>> Points should be normed by impressions, and then smoothed (or given credibility intervals or something).

While technically you're right, that seems like taking a really simple idea and making it really complicated.

Comment scores act as a "trend" of what people are thinking - it's not like a football game where the highest score wins. If I see a discussion it's useful to see a) how many people care enough to bother to vote either way and b) what sort of proportions are involved.

I think most people here can accept that not every comment in a thread gets the same number of eyeballs, and therefore the "scores" are not necessarily directly comparable.

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#77

Post by JacobAldridge »

RossM wrote: post #72
JacobAldridge wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my dilemma, and based on pg's recent poll may be part of why that vote was split. Basically, I feel that I'm interacting more intelligently but receiving less value from the conversation. I feeling that I am contributing differently, assessing comments more on merit and adding my own thoughts less. I'm certainly voting on comments less (both up and down). But I find I lack context in many of those discussions…

Perhaps they should be visible for the author only?

Comment scores are currently visible for the author. That's what I mean by not learning from other's examples:

Let's say you say "mysql won't help with foo" and get no upvotes. Ten minutes later, in the same thread, someone says the same thing but adds a link and get 20 upvotes.

You can't tell that their behaviour - adding the link - was valuable to the group. They're above you, which could be a time thing only, so you learn nothing from their actions.

And next time, you make the same reply. If you could see their votes, you would learn from that (for most HN instances of "you").

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#78

Post by shasta »

patrickk wrote: post #46

My initial reaction was also "just bring em back". With reflection, I think a good idea might be to show the score after you vote. This way you get the feeling of making some difference i.e. immediate feedback, but also the knowledge that your vote wasn't subconsciously affected by a visible score beforehand. The main downside of this would be people voting out of curiosity to see what a comments current score is. Pe…

[...people voting out of curiosity...]

If voting reveals the score, then there would need to be a new way to abstain and reveal the score.

Re: Tell HN: Please bring back comment scores

#79

Post by drzaiusapelord »

blhack wrote: post #25

People can be wrong about things, and comment scores are useful information that helps us know if they are. "that is not how mysql works" with 2 Points And "that is not how mysql works" with 102 points Are not the same piece of info. I don't see any benefit to hiding this from people. It also helps newbies understand the customs here (they can get feedback on other people's comments) edit now that I'm not on my phone…

Why aren't they the same piece of info? Scores just reflect popularity, not expert analysis. I find scoring systems like at reddit or slashdot just promote, usually wrong, group think (ZOMG OBAMA IS A COMMIE KENYAN!!) or whatever group values the majority accepts (GAYS SHOULDNT GET MARRIED!!).

There's a lot of faith in the wisdom of crowds with these systems and that's not a faith I find particularly convincing. The lowest common denominator shouldn't be encouraged. These systems are good for getting rid of trolls and other cruft, but not magical quality or truth machines.

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