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Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

medrxiv.org

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Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#111

Post by cltby »

kasperni wrote: post #2

From the conclusion: "The scale of the observed deficits was not insubstantial; the 0.57 SD global composite score reduction for the hospitalised with ventilator sub-group was equivalent to the average 10-year decline in global performance between the ages of 20 to 70 within this dataset. It was larger than the mean deficit of 512 people who indicated they had previously suffered a stroke (-0.40SDs) and the 1016 who…

I'm certainly not accusing you of this personally, but it's curious how selectively IQ is accepted/denied on this site. It's real enough for the purposes of covid policy, lead abatement, or whatever other fashionable environmental intervention. In just about every other case, flat out denialism.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#112

Post by shellac »

b112 wrote: post #108
julianlam wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also used to find this disturbing, but the way I have explained this to myself is -- Insignificant 75% Of course for each individual situation the numbers vary, and I use them simply to demonstrate that it's a matter of degrees, and not as binary as you may expect a typical "not" to be. It is the only double negative I have come to find useful.

I agree with the 'binary' here, but also add "not bracketed". For me, I see: Insignificant ~75% With: Not Significant But of course, that's almost certainly a colloquialism.

> that's almost certainly a colloquialism.

Probably, although sometimes these become terms of art, i.e. words or phrases with quite a specific meaning in a particular field. (Think of the people who hear 'significant' as '< 5% under null hypothesis', ironically not what Fisher intended)

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#113

Post by treeman79 »

hderms wrote: post #95
treeman79 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Varies a lot. I get a lot of minor strokes if I skip blood thinners for a week or so. At peak I’m a highly effective programmer. If I’ve had one recently, a “for loop” is a challenging concept. After a few days to weeks I’ll be back to near normal. Some symptoms last longer. Highly active Factor 5 Leiden, so I clot like crazy.

That sounds incredibly difficult. You must be a very strong and intelligent person.

Thank you, yes beyond challenging. Mostly at this point because I work technical jobs and have no idea how to step down to lower role where periodic reduced intelligence is less of an issue.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#114

Post by hobbescotch »

zikzak wrote: post #16
isoprophlex wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must be hell to have a bunch of suited figures tell you "we're putting you to sleep, hope to see you on the other side"... and then wake up intubated.

I have a screwed up neck. WHen I had surgery for a different part of my body I had to be awake while they "put the tube in". You are on an operating table with an anesthetic in your throat, your arms are restrained, then these masked (which would seem more normal now, I guess) and gowned figures start forcing tube down your throat while you try to "swallow it" and breath through your nose... there's a point where you…

I can really relate to this. I have had to have a cornea transplant and many other eye surgeries over the past year where I had to be awake during them. I know in a few years I will likely be going through the same thing and I’m having trouble coping with that. It is really not fun having an operation on your eye while being awake and seeing the whole thing happen through that eye!

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#115

Post by username90 »

Did they test before and after? Looks to me like they just tested after and then controlled for a few factors. The simple explanation would be that people with cognitive deficits are more likely to catch covid, either from being in worse health or from just doing more dumb shit.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#116

Post by salicideblock »

cltby wrote: post #111
kasperni wrote: post #2

From the conclusion: "The scale of the observed deficits was not insubstantial; the 0.57 SD global composite score reduction for the hospitalised with ventilator sub-group was equivalent to the average 10-year decline in global performance between the ages of 20 to 70 within this dataset. It was larger than the mean deficit of 512 people who indicated they had previously suffered a stroke (-0.40SDs) and the 1016 who…

I'm certainly not accusing you of this personally, but it's curious how selectively IQ is accepted/denied on this site. It's real enough for the purposes of covid policy, lead abatement, or whatever other fashionable environmental intervention. In just about every other case, flat out denialism.

The general concern with IQ when used for policymaking, or with standardized "intelligence" tests in general, is that they can fail to account for environmental or cultural factors across individuals or populations.

In both cases of covid and lead effects, the effect can be measured on the same population, and/or controlled for proxies of those factors (see "when controlling for age, gender, education level, income, racial-ethnic group and pre-existing medical disorders" in the article. So the general concern with the metric can be excluded.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#117

Post by bitdizzy »

cltby wrote: post #111
kasperni wrote: post #2

From the conclusion: "The scale of the observed deficits was not insubstantial; the 0.57 SD global composite score reduction for the hospitalised with ventilator sub-group was equivalent to the average 10-year decline in global performance between the ages of 20 to 70 within this dataset. It was larger than the mean deficit of 512 people who indicated they had previously suffered a stroke (-0.40SDs) and the 1016 who…

I'm certainly not accusing you of this personally, but it's curious how selectively IQ is accepted/denied on this site. It's real enough for the purposes of covid policy, lead abatement, or whatever other fashionable environmental intervention. In just about every other case, flat out denialism.

IQ is somewhat effective as a diagnostic tool for significant impairment and not much else. Your examples of where it is not contentious are exactly cases where you must measure impairments. Do you want to list some example contexts where you witness "flat out denialism"?

In any case there is an important point: The variance of measured IQ for the same individual over time is very high. It's hard to extract a signal for that unless there's a severe effect being measured.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#119

Post by mattdeboard »

Wintamute wrote: post #97

Causation !== correlation. An alternative explanation is those more likely to catch COVID-19 are more likely to be a cohort with lower IQ to begin with (e.g. have lower skilled jobs that put them in harms way etc.). Without a before and after IQ test of biologically confirmed COVID-19 patients this is junk.

IQ tests are absolute junk as a measurement of general intelligence. IQ is a political tool not a scientific one.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#120

Post by easytiger »

srtjstjsj wrote: post #67
easytiger wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Furthermore most people, certainly before covid, who are so ill wouldn't even be considered for ICU respirator use because the recovery time from the trauma to keep them alive might exceed their likely life expectancy anyway. There is a worry that during covid more people are being referred for respiraton when previously they wouldn't be. That was the issue, at least in the UK with the field hospitals as well. They c…

In perhaps the most frustrating linguistic confusion of the pandemic (competing with "lockdown"): A respirator is a mask. A ventilator is a pump. Ventilators are far more dangerous than respirators.

Truly. Weirdly I did have ventilator and changed it
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