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Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

medrxiv.org

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Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#61

Post by sokoloff »

vekker wrote: post #56
neuronic wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are unable to worry about or comprehend the effects that happen right NOW. I am a staunch believer in post-viral syndrome as I experienced it first hand following an Epstein-Barr infection (mono) but aside from a handful of researchers nobody cares at all. For most physicians, it isn't even within the realm of possibilities when you come to them with random maladies. Boom, now you have anxiety because that's w…

This might seem a bit out there / like woo woo to some, but have you tried "breathing exercises" (intermittent hypoxia) and cold exposure to counter those effects you are talking about? Particularly, the Wim Hof Method? I know it helps for people with autoimmune diseases anecdotally, but there's also some good scientific evidence for it.

I regularly monitor my O2 saturation (via an OTC pulse-ox) when flying unpressurized airplanes.

It’s extremely easy to raise my O2 sats at altitude by conscious deep-breathing, but IME, it’s incredibly difficult to lower them near sea-level by any amount of conscious breathing changes. I’m curious to try the Wim-Hof methods on my pulse ox and I’ll do that, but I fully expect to see consistent 98-99% O2 sats here at 10 meters above sea level with anything other than changing the air composition to reduce partial pressure of O2.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#62

Post by luckylion »

shultays wrote: post #35
xd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's still an effect of the treatment. If you perform a study on people whom have been ill you're going to get results that show all the symptoms of illness.. the study could have been done with any illness and likely show cognitive decline.

symptoms of illness is the illness itself. Ignoring these symptoms of covid or results of the treatment is saying something like "bullets don't kill people, it ruptures blood vessels and you die due to loss of blood"

> symptoms of illness is the illness itself

Is it a symptom of the illness or a symptom of the treatment? If you had a better treatment protocol, would it still happen to the same degree?

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#63

Post by diu7sieQuee9jai »

neuronic wrote: post #34
fogihujy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the fact that someone was uable to breathe on their own also suggests that the virus may have caused a lack of oxygen to the brain. In such circumstances brain damage is quite likely, and then the disease would indeed be the cause. Fortunately, the group of people that end up on ventilators is not really that large, and I can imagine minor brain damage would still be preferable to death in many of those cases.…

People are unable to worry about or comprehend the effects that happen right NOW. I am a staunch believer in post-viral syndrome as I experienced it first hand following an Epstein-Barr infection (mono) but aside from a handful of researchers nobody cares at all. For most physicians, it isn't even within the realm of possibilities when you come to them with random maladies. Boom, now you have anxiety because that's w…

I have been dealing with something that sounds very much like what you describe. It started a few years ago. At the moment it is manageable. I've been in and out of many many doctors' offices. Bloodworks actually indicated a recent (but past) EBV infection, that's why your post rang bells with me.

Would you have pointers to how to nail this down? Introductory material or such?

I have to say I really feel your description of the anxiety cop-out. I literally had doctors shouting at me "you are not sick what are you doing here" at some point when I was sitting there already nearly crying because once more I was sitting there, mostly fine, when a few hours ago I was barely able to get up, let alone get on a bike to go to a doctor. And yes, "anxiety disorder" was diagnosed, but no treatment... because I guess the solution is just to "man up" right and stop being such a wussy. :(

Edit:

since others are sharing their experience of the cognitive impact, I'm gonna chime in here.

For me, the episodes came in two flavors:

1. I was feeling weak, and felt like falling. That was both in reality (I was having trouble staying upright and had to lean and hold onto everything and anything while standing/walking) and in my head. It wasn't so much that the world was spinning. It was more like sitting on a chair, rocking back and forth on the hind legs only. And then the moment when you realize you lost your balance and are going to fall over backward. That feeling.

2. I was also feeling weird but had no trouble with balance. However, the whole world suddenly seemed unreal and far away. Like seen through a bad CCTV screen.

Needless to say, both of those states, experienced at random times over months and months, with no explanation, and little support from doctors who were either uninterested or seemed to think I was just seeking attention, did indeed make me more anxious than I ever was.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#65

Post by spuz »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #60

This is perhaps impossible to test (which shows the fundamental weakness of social science) but I think it's nonetheless relevant: studies like this don't factor in overall societal attitude. I can't be the only one that has felt tired, depressed, and just plain bewildered over the past six months. The pessimistic doomsday mentality affects everyone, even if you don't actually get the virus. If I took an IQ test toda…

They are comparing test results of people who reported having a positive covid-19 test vs those that reported no positive test or symptoms. The timing of the study should not be a factor.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#67

Post by srtjstjsj »

easytiger wrote: post #29
Smaug123 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most intensive form of ventilation is so extremely unpleasant that patients are usually kept sedated for the whole thing. An external pump shoves air into the lungs via a tube through the mouth and down the windpipe; there's a very small window of pressures where you can do this without physically damaging the lung. The tube itself is immensely uncomfortable and I imagine its mere presence would be traumatic enou…

Furthermore most people, certainly before covid, who are so ill wouldn't even be considered for ICU respirator use because the recovery time from the trauma to keep them alive might exceed their likely life expectancy anyway. There is a worry that during covid more people are being referred for respiraton when previously they wouldn't be. That was the issue, at least in the UK with the field hospitals as well. They c…

In perhaps the most frustrating linguistic confusion of the pandemic (competing with "lockdown"):

A respirator is a mask.

A ventilator is a pump.

Ventilators are far more dangerous than respirators.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#68

Post by api »

xd wrote: post #15
redis_mlc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the hospitalised with ventilator sub-group So this affects almost nobody then, and is probably caused by the sedatives, immobilization and ventilator organ damage, aside from corona.

Also, I had a brief look over the paper but couldn't find anything to control for isolation since lockdown .. surely this would of had an effect on peoples cognition. On a side note, maybe it's just me but I keep seeing comments that don't follow a "politically" accepted view point, being down vote like yours.

If isolation with a net connection for a few months dropped multiple IQ points, then all the shut-ins who do nothing but hang around on the Internet all day would be losing multiple tens of IQ points a year and would be functionally disabled by now.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#69

Post by _pmf_ »

shultays wrote: post #35
xd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's still an effect of the treatment. If you perform a study on people whom have been ill you're going to get results that show all the symptoms of illness.. the study could have been done with any illness and likely show cognitive decline.

symptoms of illness is the illness itself. Ignoring these symptoms of covid or results of the treatment is saying something like "bullets don't kill people, it ruptures blood vessels and you die due to loss of blood"

Symptoms from chemo therapy are NOT commonly classified as symptoms of the cancer that it's supposed to treat.

Why do we have to make up extra rules for everything Covid-19 related?

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#70

Post by darkerside »

bildung wrote: post #45
ghufran_syed wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted - here’s a page about post-intensive care syndrome, on the website of the society for critical care medicine, that’s concordant with what you said: https://www.sccm.org/MyICUCare/THRIVE/Post-intensive-Care-Sy...

Probably because according to the paper, Covid-positive patients not on ventilators also had the mental impairment problems, only to a lesser degree.

He's replying to the comment in front of him. Seems relevant.
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