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Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

reuters.com

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Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see cell towers in the desert that are "disguised" to look like pine trees in places where pine trees haven't grown in 10,000 years. https://twitter.com/Reaperducer/status/1153046208442540032

Should've used the cactus version https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/y0nsj/how_to_hide_a_c...

I've never noticed those before, thanks! I've just seen the pine tree and palm tree ones. Always fun when they install the wrong one in a situation.

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to see you speculate that it would be a culture that prioritizes reliability. I could also imagine that it is more like the Vikings or Polynesians where some fishermen pushed technology further than before and ended up somewhere new. That kind of "bravery" or experimentation has sometimes played of in past circumstances much better than some kind of architected reliability / safety focused approach.

It has to safety oriented. Space is death. Advanced civilizations can probably harness that danger like we do fire and electricity but we still f#@$ it up burning buildings and cars. Thus we spend time and energy with fire safety. Space is a different ballgame

I still think the parent has a insightful comment. It's interesting to compare the hybrid between deep care and deep recklessness of Belters in various scifi (e.g. The Expanse) vs. historical oceanic explorers on Earth. Setting off across the ocean in little more than a canoe doesn't seem particularly safety oriented, and maybe there is a civilization that evolves a similar approach to space. That could be as simple as "spray and pray," or more deceptively sophisticated like Polynesian navigation.

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#163
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has to do with that the expense of setting up a cellular network is so expensive that it hasn't be done in large parts of the earth, much less another celestial body.

That's the business of network providers. To acquire the hardware, install them, and operate the service. That has nothing to do with Nasa or Nokia. I don't know why there are areas in US that lack service providers. Maybe someone here can explain it - I presume the reason has to do with something US specific about the business rather the overall cost since lots of low GDP areas globally can have good cellular covera…

I get 4G in Russia, on a mountain in a crevice that has a glacier and 4 goats.

Jokes aside, you'd be surprised how good network coverage is in some remote areas that seemingly have very little economic value.

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#164
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has to do with that the expense of setting up a cellular network is so expensive that it hasn't be done in large parts of the earth, much less another celestial body.

That's the business of network providers. To acquire the hardware, install them, and operate the service. That has nothing to do with Nasa or Nokia. I don't know why there are areas in US that lack service providers. Maybe someone here can explain it - I presume the reason has to do with something US specific about the business rather the overall cost since lots of low GDP areas globally can have good cellular covera…

It's not so much average earnings per person as average people per square mile. The network providers only want to invest where the return on that investment meets or exceeds some floor. Parts of the US are so sparsely populated the phone contracts for cellular would be huge to justify building the towers and backhauling the signals.

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#165
post #97

Is anyone aware of a date/time representation system that would work universally (including extraterrestrial places)? I just have been curious about this question for long. Sure, we could keep an earth referential on a moon base, but then what about Mars? As a software developer it is already difficult to always get dates/times properly with timezones, now imagine places which does not have 24 hours per day or the sa…

It depends on which layer you're asking about addressing. You can represent anything non-relatavistic on top of the Unix epoch, and it could be handled as simply as using alternate time zones. The big problems come from huge Earth assumptions about interval duration and interval sequencing being violated. A lunar day is 29.5 Earth days. Does the lunar calendar use solar days, and just have absurdly long weeks and yea…

Off earth you have a launch criterion and accumulated subjective seconds. That's your onboard time.

There are no days, weeks, months, years. Just count the seconds and make sure everyone knows the epoch you started at.

Now, let's suppose you have a permanent settled outpost on Luna. You still use accumulated seconds as your time basis, but for casual conversation, you can talk about any Earth time marking that makes sense to you -- next Tuesday, or March 20th, or "in three months". You might occasionally care about whether it's bright or dark outside, but the tidal lock means that local weeks and months really aren't useful.

The hard thing is when you actually care about both the time on Earth and the local time/date/season of a planet you are interacting with naturally. Let's hypothesize a terraformed Venus, and while we're at it, let's change the axial tilt from 2.mumble degrees to 24 degrees. That gives us a 224ish terrestrial day V-year, a 1.92 V-day V-year, and approximately eight seasons per V-year, each being 56 days long.

On that planet, you get to go outside and enjoy the fresh air, but you want to know what season it is more than you want to know what month it is:

dark-winter, dark-fall, dark-summer, dark-spring

bright-winter, bright-fall, hell, bright-spring

(Venus rotates backwards, that's why the seasons are all funny.)

But when you want to know when the next shipment of Earth whisky is coming, you ask a computer.

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#166
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that has anything to do with Nasa or Nokia?

Somewhere, a person with the expertise to deploy cellular networks is working on this rather than WY.

So lets close all catering in casinos, bars and all of Vegas untill every child in Africa is fed.

And all distilleries and breweries, since they waste perfectly good produce to brew alcohol, and just increase our healthcare costs

And gold courses.

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're suggesting an entire country of millions of people change their phone numbers Yes. It's been done before. And considering the available space, eventually the moon could have more people on it than Thailand. because America What makes you think that only one country will use phones on the moon?

"Luna" 5862 might be a better option if there isn't already a 58?

58 is Venezuela.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_country_calling_codes

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#169
post #100
post #97

Is anyone aware of a date/time representation system that would work universally (including extraterrestrial places)? I just have been curious about this question for long. Sure, we could keep an earth referential on a moon base, but then what about Mars? As a software developer it is already difficult to always get dates/times properly with timezones, now imagine places which does not have 24 hours per day or the sa…

Mars calendar, each year has 24 months: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darian_calendar Solar system time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barycentric_Coordinate_Time

Alternatively:

* https://www.kimstanleyrobinson.info/content/martian-calendar

See also:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timekeeping_on_Mars

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#170
post #43

All terrestrial base stations (1) require GPS signal for time synchronization. Most of them can run for 4 hours - 24 hours without GPS, but that's it, after that holdover period it's dead. There is no GPS signal on the moon. That's a problem. (1) except micro base stations

There are indications that signals from the US GPS constellation and other GNSS constellations can be received on at least part of the moon; coverage gaps could be closed with just a couple of satellites near the moon. https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/aerospace/satellites/can...

Does the GPS protocol or another protocol already handle satellites in arbitrary and arbitrarily large orbits?
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