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Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

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Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#231
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew someone would bring up Citizens United v FEC when I said worst. I know this will be an unpopular opinion on this forum, but I believe that case was decided correctly. I agree wholeheartedly with Justice Kennedy's opinion that "If the First Amendment has any force, it prohibits Congress from fining or jailing citizens, or associations of citizens, for simply engaging in political speech" Read the opinions and d…

The essential problem, which Justice Kennedy seemed not to understand, is that money is not speech. The easy test to show this as nonsense is quantification, i.e., it’s clearly the case that some citizens have more money than others, but it’s nonsense to think that some citizens have more free speech than others. One of Justice Kennedy’s clerks in 2009-2010 was Misha Tseytlin, a Federalist Society member who undoubte…

Since Citizen's United, I can think of no effective or fair way to curtail corporate speech.

But I can think of dozens of ways to amplify and nurture non-corporate speech.

Yes, the torrent of bullshit is crippling democracy. But it's also true that other important speech is still not heard.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#232
post #67

> The other initiative, called Foxconn Future Leaders, targeted recent college graduates > Employees ..., no matter what role they had been hired for, were told to figure out what Foxconn should do in Wisconsin themselves. > The new management seemed increasingly open in its disdain for the local workforce. “Why are Americans paid so much and do so little? I can’t tell you how many times we heard that,” said one empl…

This is not what happened clearly. Foxconn didn't know what to do with the facility at all and had no material plans, it was like expansion without a cause. The hiring had no purpose other than to probably break even on the subsidies, which I don't think they met profits from, so it was a big debacle from start to end. The 'problem' was Foxconn didn't have a business plan for the facility. The 'subsidies' meant that…

It is easy to say "they just hired to fill a quota" when the only person who seems to do any actual work is the person hiring to fill their quota.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#233

The fact that local governments in every state make deals with companies for reduced property-tax rates is why I'm terrified about Prop 15 killing California. The big businesses, Facebook, Google, Apple, will all negotiate special property tax rates and only the small businesses will have to pay the double or triple tax prop 15 would bring.

This is a very incorrect view of property taxation in silicon valley. Google and Apple are not going to be harmed in the least, because Google and Apple already pay a disproportionate amount of real property taxes in Santa Clara County. If Prop 15 makes legacy businesses pay a fair assessment on their parcels, relative newcomers like Google will be helped, not harmed. Google is Santa Clara County's largest taxpayer,…

That's exactly what I said. Big companies that will build a campus the city wants will get special treatment. The small machine shop that buys a quanset hut for $4,000,000 in mountain view will be taxed to death.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I read somewhere that Louisiana loses about 20% of its local municipal revenue per year due to corporate welfare and tax breaks.

That's an unfair way to say it. You could equally say "Louisiana spends about 20% of its local municipal revenue supporting local businesses." I have no idea if that is a big number or how it compares to other states. I also have no idea if it's a good investment - perhaps it results in lots of jobs and ultimately more than 20% increase in tax take (you should also factor in if it's just pulling jobs and therefore ta…

It's an accurate way to say it.

The companies that are getting the breaks are large multinationals who drop polluting chemical plants into towns and raise local cancer rates while getting sweetheart deals that true local corporations never get.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you define the meaning of "worse" here and then back up your claim with evidence?

https://youtu.be/9KRe08n0d3o?t=7 Just watch it. I'm an american born chinese. I'm basically a lazy bastard like every other american. If you go to china you'll see these people are industrious af. They will work their ass off no question under slave labor until they kill themselves. You've heard of the nets to prevent suicide in Foxconn right? The movie spins the whole situation as a cultural problem. This is partly…

I'm not sure how my single, limited point of view is relevant when discussing the work culture and productivity of an entire nation. I say that as someone who has worked extensively in china, Taiwan, japan, and the usa. So for the same reason I don't see why your anecdotal evidence is relevant.

I saw that movie. I saw a lot of chinese foreman types expressing their own bigotry towards american workers. I saw a lot of american foreman expressing their bigotry towards union workers, blue collar workers, and imo black workers.

I didn't see any actual meaningful evidence to back up the claim that all chinese workers are harder working than american ones. That would be an extremely difficult claim to make evidence for, of course, like all prejudiced positions that paint with a brush as large as a race, culture, or country.

By the way, I can't know why foxconn employees (in china, not in Taiwan) died by suicide individually, but I suspect it has a lot to do with the massive poverty divide in china, as well as the lack of social services. I imagine they worked in such awful conditions for such long hours because they wouldn't have shelter or food otherwise, which as we know take precedence over all other needs.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foxconn is Taiwanese, not Chinese.

True, but Foxconn and Terry Gou have a very tight knit relationship to China and its ruling party

That is correct, but doesn't make calling foxconn a "taiwanese firm" accurate, unless one was doing so as a means of political criticism, i.e. "they might as well be a chinese firm for all the support they give to xi jinping."

I'm only careful to make the distinction because the ccp works to impress upon international website users that there's no difference between the countries.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#237
post #221
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says they failed to qualify for a subsidy so I assume they were planning on getting money from that.

They were tax credits with requirements they did not meet. If they were planning on taking advantage of those credits, it seems like they would have put in the minimum effort to at least appear to meet them. Something a little stranger happened here. I think related to global politics, not just something with Trump or Scott Walker.

I don’t entirely disagree but I do think that’s explained by, they weren’t actually planning on having to actually meet any benchmarks, rather than just having a friend in the Governor’s mansion.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#238
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preliminarily, I do think such a law would be constitutional. However, you haven’t said why you think it wouldn’t be, so I’m not sure what exactly you’re inviting me to argue.

I think it wouldn't be constitutional on the same grounds as Citizens United , namely, it would be a violation of the right to free speech. If I have a constitutional right as an individual to label things kosher or halal, why would I lose that right if I go into business with some friends? (I'm assuming I have this right as an individual, right?) I think it is a consistent view that I do lose that right when I incor…

YOU don't lose that right, but the corporation is never given that right

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://youtu.be/9KRe08n0d3o?t=7 Just watch it. I'm an american born chinese. I'm basically a lazy bastard like every other american. If you go to china you'll see these people are industrious af. They will work their ass off no question under slave labor until they kill themselves. You've heard of the nets to prevent suicide in Foxconn right? The movie spins the whole situation as a cultural problem. This is partly…

I'm not sure how my single, limited point of view is relevant when discussing the work culture and productivity of an entire nation. I say that as someone who has worked extensively in china, Taiwan, japan, and the usa. So for the same reason I don't see why your anecdotal evidence is relevant. I saw that movie. I saw a lot of chinese foreman types expressing their own bigotry towards american workers. I saw a lot of…

This is why some people need to open your eyes to reality. Not all stereotypes are untrue.

When someone says chinese people have slanty eyes it's a stereotype but an aspect of it is true. Many many chinese people do have slanty eyes. When most of china says American blue collar workers aren't hard working, when china manufacturing out performs the US, when every chinese person I know won't hire an American worker... Trust me... Is it racism? Yes but a large aspect of it is true.

People like you don't like to believe certain things so you're unable to use anecdotal evidence to verify anything. You hide behind science and demand quantifiable research. As a chinese person I don't need science to verify the racist statement that more chinese people have slanty eyes than white people, because I don't hide from reality. It's a truth that is real. Many things are obvious without science.

The problem with other people like you is you hide behind racism as well. The reality of this world is that not all people are equal and all races have certain idiosyncrasies in behavior and physicality originating from either genetics or culture that fit a general truth. When someone says something racist or stereotypical that asians are generally shorter than white people or asians have slantier eyes or asians do better in school or asians are harder working... If you analyze these statements and are unbiased you would know that these statements illustrate a truth about reality that you are denying yourself of because of self inflicted blindness. I'm assuming you're white and I can tell you as much as I don't like to hear a white person say things about slanty eyed chinese people I have to objectively admit it's true EVEN without scientific evidence because I can make judgements about the world without it. So when I say that my people think americans workers are lazy, slow and unskilled workers you tell me how much of it is true and how much of it is made up for no reason.

Maybe you don't like to hear that my race and many chinese people think americans are lazy. Maybe you don't like to think that an aspect of this is true. Whatever. At least maybe you'll understand one thing: Foxconn does not give a flying shit about building a factory in the US. They don't care and they have no intention of doing so because if they did they could make it happen but they don't. This is a company that built millions of iphones... they wouldn't have the comical screw ups you see in the article if they gave a shit. Hopefully your mind can digest this fact without scientific evidence.

As for your own anecdotal experience in Asia I can only say that if you're white then your experience is colored. Asians will treat you extremely differently, and likely you won't hear an asian call you a lazy factory worker. They won't even hire you for such a role, most likely you'll be hired to be in some bs management role or teaching English if you're a white guy in china. Your experience will be largely shielded. The stuff you heard chinese people saying unfiltered in the conference room is something you won't hear just the same as how I don't hear all the shit white people say about asians. I have to live in the US for at least a decade before I sniff out aspects of the crap that's talked about among white people in private. But consider this, there is a huge anti racism movement in america that goes to the point of absurdity. I can't say anything about a race even if it's true because it will be construed as racism. So even in many white circles the individuals either keep their traps shut if they have racist thoughts or they buy into the whole movement. Which one are you?

Oh and it's legal to talk shit about your own race in this movement. I can say asians have slanty eyes because I'm asian but if a non asian says it than he or she is a racist. Pretty logical rule.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a real con, I think.

I am not sure about that, it sound like they lost money. Who is the con artist who lined their own pocket in this story? Is this about tariffs?

Had the state of Wisconsin not wised up last minute and begun a legal battle over the billions in subsidies Foxconn would receive, then they would have done quite nicely.

Fortunately the political pressure mounted as the plant didn't materialize as promised.

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