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Intel exits memory business, sale to Hynix for $9B

news.skhynix.com

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Re: Intel exits memory business, sale to Hynix for $9B

#81

Post by theandrewbailey »

keypusher wrote: post #36
Reason077 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Intel is pretty much dead as is US tech innovation on this scale" The US still has Apple, Nvidia, Tesla, etc. All doing world-leading stuff. I would say US tech is far from dead.

Apple does research, design and software but all the manufacturing and assembly is done in China by Chinese companies. Mostly Samsung and Foxconn. Nvidia is the same but the chips are fabbed by TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor).

> Nvidia is the same but the chips are fabbed by TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor).

That's been mostly true, but Nvidia's latest chips are coming from Samsung's fabs. Nvidia will probably switch back to TSMC when openings appear.

https://www.sammobile.com/news/samsung-8nm-process-nvidia-ge...

Re: Intel exits memory business, sale to Hynix for $9B

#82

Post by bryanlarsen »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #55
mobilio wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same happens to Boeing too.

Except Boeing will be bailed out eternally since it's the US's only civil aircraft manufacturer and has lots of defense contracts.

The bailout can and should be after they declare Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Save the factories and the jobs, but there is no need to bail out the shareholders or bondholders.

Re: Intel exits memory business, sale to Hynix for $9B

#83

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #82
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Boeing will be bailed out eternally since it's the US's only civil aircraft manufacturer and has lots of defense contracts.

The bailout can and should be after they declare Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Save the factories and the jobs, but there is no need to bail out the shareholders or bondholders.

Letting Bieing get to chapter 11 means letting Airbus eat their lunches and the US would never let that happen.

Re: Intel exits memory business, sale to Hynix for $9B

#84

Post by nabla9 »

gruez wrote: post #79
nabla9 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virtually all economic talking points you see in the news and columns are based on data that simplifies the issue to the point where it's misleading. You need to evaluate international trade using value added to get a proper picture (TiVA = Trade in Value Added) Chinese tech exports have been typically low value added assembly jobs. They import components from Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, EU and the US and assemble th…

>assemble them together at the PCP level and up I think you mean PCB, not PCP

Yes.

Re: Intel exits memory business, sale to Hynix for $9B

#85

Post by bhouston »

freeone3000 wrote: post #32
baybal2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it wasn't. Lazy salesmanship did. Go and look how much margin a distributor still have wholesale for mainstream NAND flash.

But why buy Intel when Samsung has a device in every class (even enterprise) that's just as fast or faster, and cheaper as well? This is the fifth-best SSD manufacturer selling out to the third-best SSD manufacturer. No matter how much you put into marketing, it's a worse product being sold to technical purchasers.

I bet 2nd, 3rd and 4th tier nand manufacturers are popular in data centers.

Re: Intel exits memory business, sale to Hynix for $9B

#86

Post by bryanlarsen »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #83
bryanlarsen wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bailout can and should be after they declare Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Save the factories and the jobs, but there is no need to bail out the shareholders or bondholders.

Letting Bieing get to chapter 11 means letting Airbus eat their lunches and the US would never let that happen.

Why? Chapter 11 doesn't mean they stop making or selling planes. The biggest problem would be uncertainty, and that can be dealt with by announcing the intention of bailout immediately after the chapter 11 announcement.

For example GM went through chapter 11 in 2009. This helped their sales rather than hurt it.

Re: Intel exits memory business, sale to Hynix for $9B

#87

Post by javajosh »

solarkraft wrote: post #48
keypusher wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does research, design and software but all the manufacturing and assembly is done in China by Chinese companies. Mostly Samsung and Foxconn. Nvidia is the same but the chips are fabbed by TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor).

Foxconn is taiwanese, Samsung south korean. Some Nvidia chips are also made by Samsung. Apart from these inaccuracies however I'd mostly agree that us-american manufacturing is not in a great position, to put it mildly. That's not neccessarily where the real value lies, however: That's usually exactly in the designs, where the USA are strong.

Physical manufacturing doesn't matter until the shooting starts.

Re: Intel exits memory business, sale to Hynix for $9B

#88

Post by yvdriess »

iagovar wrote: post #50
agumonkey wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone did remind us that TSMC relies on dutch machines for wafer productions. It's not china-skills-black-hole as one could think (I used to)

If you trust the EU to prevent ASML end up in chinese hands, then you're trusting too much.

ASML is already banned by the Netherlands government to deal with China.

Re: Intel exits memory business, sale to Hynix for $9B

#89

Post by tw04 »

lend000 wrote: post #5

Intel's NAND flash was overshadowed by their Optane (not included in the sale) and lagging behind Hynix and Samsung, so I guess this isn't such a bad move. The cynical take is that the CFO running Intel is attempting a bunch of standard corporate restructuring strategies to delay the effects of their slowing technical innovation. It is definitely concerning from a US technical superiority standpoint to consider that…

I'm not sure I agree it was lagging behind. They were definitely not first to market with 3D-NAND but my gut feeling is that was because of the engineering focus on Optane. AFAIK they and Kioxia (toshba) were leading the charge on PLC memory.

All of that is ignoring the fact that there is absolutely a benefit for Intel to have vertical integration in this area. They make countless products that rely on flash storage - from NICs to switches. The second they have to rely on an outside party they have to pay markup for that company's margin and they're at that company's mercy from an R&D perspective.

This whole thing feels penny wise, pound foolish to me.

Re: Intel exits memory business, sale to Hynix for $9B

#90

Post by tw04 »

freeone3000 wrote: post #32
baybal2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it wasn't. Lazy salesmanship did. Go and look how much margin a distributor still have wholesale for mainstream NAND flash.

But why buy Intel when Samsung has a device in every class (even enterprise) that's just as fast or faster, and cheaper as well? This is the fifth-best SSD manufacturer selling out to the third-best SSD manufacturer. No matter how much you put into marketing, it's a worse product being sold to technical purchasers.

Because basically every enterprise storage provider on the planet has contracts that require a minimum of dual-sourcing. Beyond that I'm not sure where you've seen Samsung be cheaper - they're more expensive across the board. Obviously storage vendors aren't paying retail:

https://www.newegg.com/intel-d3-s4510-1-92tb/p/0D9-002V-003V...

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-PM863a-Enterprise-Internal-MZ...

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