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When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

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Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#291
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I won't deny that even the educated can be manipulated- look at our generation affected by corporate and political agendas. Yes, totalitarian states have used education to indoctrinate masses to maintain order and power. Depends on who does the teaching and how it is taught, that is why critical thinking is key. Given this prerequisite, is an educated population easier to be manipulated than an illiterate one?

What better way to manipulate a population than by “educating” them?

Yet if you don't know math, you can be ripped off. If you can't read the contract or understand law at all, you can be manipulated.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> School's purpose is not to teach obedience or even getting a job. It is there to teach us critical thinking, and consequently, how to be a good citizen. An educated population is also less prone to fall into totalitarianism. Germany was among the most highly educated countries in the world in the 1930s. The Russian Revolution was an elite phenomenon. In a country of peasants the Revolution was of and by the intelli…

> It would be hard to be clearer that the purpose of the “education” system is indoctrination. You call it indoctrination. Someone else might equally call it social cohesion.

Tomato tomato

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#293
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? In all statistics I have seen up to now, men were more likely to be antimask then women. So French women seems to be outliers.

https://jean-jaures.org/nos-productions/bas-les-masques-soci...

A thousand or so vocal Facebook users found on anti-mask groups were surveyed... Not exactly the epitome of representativity...

94% of them say they will refuse to be vaccinated against COVID-19... Both educated and anti-science. Maybe their educational system failed them, or there are other important factors at play.

57% believe in a global Zionist conspiracy theory... 52% think the Illuminati are attempting to control the population...

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#294
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? In all statistics I have seen up to now, men were more likely to be antimask then women. So French women seems to be outliers.

Men are more likely to be anti mask in USA since in USA right wing tend to be anti science. In many areas of Europe right wing is more pro science than left wing though, so the roles becomes reversed.

I live in Europe and our right wing is taking clues from American right wing. They are more anti mask then average. The German demonstrations against masks were right wing for example.

Where were left wing people in Europe more strongly against masks then center or right?

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#295
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not relate with either Tories or Labor Nor do most voters. They have to keep FPTP because they know that otherwise, most people won't vote for them; the last 4 times the UK had nationwide elections held under a more proportional system, most voters voted for parties other than labour of the Conservatives. > I don't think either has my best interests at heart. Most people agree with you!

1. we already had a vote on proportional representation: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternat... 2. everyone thinks proportional representation is excellent. the reason is usually a misunderstanding of the voting process. in reality it has drawbacks, same as first past the post. before the UK referendum a study was commissioned exploring the various types of voting. the conclusion was that all…

I don't buy the "FPTP gives strong government" argument. Even if we accept that FPTP gives the government "clarity and a definitive mandate" (a very dubious claim given the chaos of the last few years), what's so great about strong government? The whole point of democracy is to prevent the government from getting too strong; if we really wanted strong government we'd abolish parliament and go back to letting the monarch decide everything.

Many, many European countries have proportional systems in which it's very rare for one party to get a clear majority and governments are almost always coalitions. Would Norway, Sweden or the Netherlands really be better off under a system like FPTP that effectively disenfranchises a large majority of the electorate?

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for example in France, the category where you can find the most antimask persons is high educated women in their 50s.

This says nothing about population of people who homeschool.

Realistically, homeschool is done overwhelmingly by women. If it was social norm, it would be expected from women and not from men.

So, I guess, if women would really overall more antimask and anti-vaccine and anti-science, it would show up generation later.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#297
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, totalitarian states have used education to indoctrinate masses to maintain order and power. Depends on who does the teaching and how it is taught, that is why critical thinking is key. None of the German Empire, Weimar Republic or Russian Empire were totalitarian states. If education is protective against indoctrination the effect is at best weak. A lively marketplace of ideas is no guard against organized thu…

The Russian empire was an absolute monarchy until 1905 that was definitely totalitarian by modern understanding. The subsequent semi-democratic government was ineffective.

The Russian Empire was authoritarian. It was not totalitarian under any definition of the term I’ve ever encountered. There was an extremely lively press, active intellectual life and real if toothless political opposition. It was absolutely nothing like under the Soviet boot.

> How did educated, liberal society respond to such terrorism? What was the position of the Constitutional Democratic (Kadet) Party and its deputies in the Duma (the parliament set up in 1905)? Though Kadets advocated democratic, constitutional procedures, and did not themselves engage in ­terrorism, they aided the terrorists in any way they could. Kadets collected money for terrorists, turned their homes into safe houses, and called for total amnesty for arrested terrorists who pledged to continue the mayhem. Kadet Party central committee member N. N. Shchepkin declared that the party did not regard terrorists as criminals at all, but as saints and martyrs. The official Kadet paper, Herald of the Party of People’s Freedom, never published an article condemning political assassination. The party leader, Paul Milyukov, declared that “all means are now legitimate . . . and all means should be tried.” When asked to condemn terrorism, another liberal leader in the Duma, Ivan Petrunkevich, famously replied: “Condemn terror? That would be the moral death of the party!”

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2020/10/suicide-of-the-l...

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#298
I personal experience I find home schooled friends are smarter and more educated than public schooled ones. Yeah you would say there may be correlation instead of causation. However, US public school system really leave me extremely unsatisfied. Would never send my kids to US public school.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#299
post #133
post #87

My brother and I were homeschooled, but it was quite structured and we wrote the same provincial exams as every other grade 12 kid. My brother did the SAT as well. We had excellent scores. We both dropped out of college with near perfect GPAs. Today I'm a successful self-taught software engineer now starting a SaaS business. My brother is a famous sci fi author. He makes even more than I do. I think homeschooling let…

This might work for outliers/higher IQ/elite people in the HN community, but consider this: 1. School is probably the best public invention to systematically distribute knowledge to the masses. Some like to point out "dropouts", "self-taught" geniuses or the "lucky few" as models instead of exceptions to the rule. 2. Not everyone is self-motivated to learn. Children, at critical developmental ages, are more prone to…

You seem to be implying that the home alternative of public schooling doesn't also accomplish these goals as well. Home schooling has a curriculum and standards just like public school does.

I'm not gonna blindly advocate for home schooling but I think anyone who cares enough about their kids' education to look into options other than public school probably also cares enough to pull it off if it's the option they wind up choosing.

>School is probably the best public invention to systematically distribute knowledge to the masses. Some like to point out "dropouts", "self-taught" geniuses or the "lucky few" as models instead of exceptions to the rule.

The further your kids are from the mean student the crappier the job the public school situation will do. It's like the difference between registering a new car at the DMV and bringing in a pile of papers to prove chain of custody on some junk that's only able to be street legal through some arcane technicality. The first transaction is painless. The latter is not. When you ask the system to do something it's well practiced at doing you get shit service.

>School's purpose is not to teach obedience or even getting a job. It is there to teach us critical thinking, and consequently, how to be a good citizen.

And if you think it's successful at that for any reasonable definition of "success" then you're clearly living in a different 2020 than I am.

Look through history, even before widespread government funded schooling everything was just as crap as it is today. You had just as many popuist leaders, pants on head retarded popular culture movements, witch hunts, all the same crap we have today. The only thing that's changed is that as society have become more advanced and richer we've become more able to avoid pain and violence.

Also, school is very much about obedience to an arbitrary system. They don't overtly state it but it's pretty damn obvious if you look at how the carrots and sticks are set up.

>An educated population is also less prone to fall into totalitarianism. Ex: Nazi Germany and Mao's China burned books and persecuted the educated (1984 style).

Sure. But it's pure lunacy to conflate what's good for society with what's good for any specific kid(s). There's definitely a lot of overlap but there's also a lot of non-overlap.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#300
I'm surprised no comment so far mentioned four important aspects of traditional schooling that I believe should be repeated here:

1. More than just teaching the curriculum, schools are great for socializing with other children your age, learning how to share, how to deal with drama and to grow some empathy. Not to mention the benefits of getting used to rules, authorities and schedules.

2. Getting in contact with how other people live and with what others think, specially outside your family, can be enlightening sometimes. The handful of successful anecdotes shared here, besides falling as survival bias, don't represent cases of disfunctional families or families crazy towards subjects like religion, science, violence, racism or politics. For every happy family there is at least another one potentially raising sociopaths.

3. Many cases of child abuse are committed by family members, frequently by parents at their own home. Allowing children to miss school takes off from them the chance of a teacher noticing such abuses or at least teaching them the limits on their bodies and well being.

4. In some cases, and I'm not sure this applies to the US, schools are the best source of food for poor children (assuming it's free).

I understand that people in favor of home schooling are not saying that home schooling should be mandatory for everyone. So in this sense, only families able to provide a positive experience to children would try it. I'm afraid that when this rationale is even an option, families could wrongfully choose home schooling, sometimes with good intentions, sometimes not so much. And in the long run I'm afraid it could leat to less public funding for schools when people are pressured or at least influenced to try home schooling their kids.

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