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When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

nytimes.com

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Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#161

Post by eloff »

numakerg wrote: post #106
eloff wrote: post #87

My brother and I were homeschooled, but it was quite structured and we wrote the same provincial exams as every other grade 12 kid. My brother did the SAT as well. We had excellent scores. We both dropped out of college with near perfect GPAs. Today I'm a successful self-taught software engineer now starting a SaaS business. My brother is a famous sci fi author. He makes even more than I do. I think homeschooling let…

> famous sci fi author If it's the same author I found based on a cursory search from your profile, then "famous" is a bit of a stretch. > Where I think it hurt was we didn't do any group social activities and lived in remote places I got a similar feeling reading about Chris Paolini. Homeschooled, raised in a remote place. Fed a lot of his early life experiences, particularly travel, into his novels but felt alienat…

Well he's not JK Rowling famous, but he has sold over a million books which puts him in a pretty elite club author wise. Especially in sci fi, that's a lot. I'm very proud of my brother, he started down a very difficult career path and became very successful. All self taught.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#162

Post by mgh2 »

barry-cotter wrote: post #149
mgh2 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might work for outliers/higher IQ/elite people in the HN community, but consider this: 1. School is probably the best public invention to systematically distribute knowledge to the masses. Some like to point out "dropouts", "self-taught" geniuses or the "lucky few" as models instead of exceptions to the rule. 2. Not everyone is self-motivated to learn. Children, at critical developmental ages, are more prone to…

> School's purpose is not to teach obedience or even getting a job. It is there to teach us critical thinking, and consequently, how to be a good citizen. An educated population is also less prone to fall into totalitarianism. Germany was among the most highly educated countries in the world in the 1930s. The Russian Revolution was an elite phenomenon. In a country of peasants the Revolution was of and by the intelli…

Yeah, I won't deny that even the educated can be manipulated- look at our generation affected by corporate and political agendas.

Yes, totalitarian states have used education to indoctrinate masses to maintain order and power. Depends on who does the teaching and how it is taught, that is why critical thinking is key.

Given this prerequisite, is an educated population easier to be manipulated than an illiterate one?

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#163

Post by cwhiz »

chrisBob wrote: post #28

I am sure unschooling works out well for some people. I appreciate giving students some flexibility, but I think there really is a standard core that most people should learn. I went to a good engineering school for college, but they also require everyone to take 3 years of history, 3 years of english, 2 semesters of a foreign language, a psychology course, ... If it was left up to me I would not have taken most of t…

The “well rounded” education stops at college for me. It’s too expensive. If you want to take those courses, you go ahead and take them. But they aren’t necessary and shouldn’t be required.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#164

Post by barry-cotter »

mgh2 wrote: post #162
barry-cotter wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> School's purpose is not to teach obedience or even getting a job. It is there to teach us critical thinking, and consequently, how to be a good citizen. An educated population is also less prone to fall into totalitarianism. Germany was among the most highly educated countries in the world in the 1930s. The Russian Revolution was an elite phenomenon. In a country of peasants the Revolution was of and by the intelli…

Yeah, I won't deny that even the educated can be manipulated- look at our generation affected by corporate and political agendas. Yes, totalitarian states have used education to indoctrinate masses to maintain order and power. Depends on who does the teaching and how it is taught, that is why critical thinking is key. Given this prerequisite, is an educated population easier to be manipulated than an illiterate one?

> Yes, totalitarian states have used education to indoctrinate masses to maintain order and power. Depends on who does the teaching and how it is taught, that is why critical thinking is key.

None of the German Empire, Weimar Republic or Russian Empire were totalitarian states. If education is protective against indoctrination the effect is at best weak. A lively marketplace of ideas is no guard against organized thugs if the liberals are not willing to defend liberalism. Critical thinking is a red herring.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#165

Post by ramraj07 »

PeterisP wrote: post #121
ramraj07 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence is not hereditary for the most part, and there's a huge environmental component to it. Clearly this household had the right mix of freedom and strictness to encourage development of creative intelligent thinking. Probably rubs off of adults with same attitudes. Of course it's not 100% I'm pretty sure if OP had more siblings one of them would be bound to be dumb as a rock.

Well, environmental components (such as the style of upbringing e.g. 'mix of freedom and strictness', and simply socioeconomic status, which affects quite a lot) are also quite heritable and shared between siblings, so we'd expect their intelligence to be even more correlated. However, intelligence is hereditary for the most part compared to that shared environment - for example, adoption studies show that the IQ sco…

Everyone seems to be quoting a lot but in the end it seems to converge to a handful (at least, I hope) studies with adopted children. I'll try to find the references before making judgements.

Until then, whether this is really useful or not, I want to mention that time and again my experience in academia is that topics like these where we really depend on the judgement of the investigators a lot need to be carefully evaluated. Academics have a tendency to over exaggerate significant beliefs from highly questionable data points from very few studies. I'll revert back after going through the literature best I can.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#166

Post by mberning »

Some of the most intelligent and exciting people I have worked with have been homeschooled. I would counter the idea that homeschooling/unschooling is like a religion by turning it around. The orthodoxy of public education in the US is a borderline cult. The institution is unassailable. Where I live levies are passed that raise taxes and the community has nothing to show for it. The union Is like the mob and once you are a “made man” it is nearly impossible to be fired. Administrators are paid more than senior engineers. People that work in this system absolutely abhor the idea of citizens having a choice over their own education. Returning tax money to the tax payer to fund their own education, even if it is a fraction of what the public school receives, is a source of vehement objection by the teachers union.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#167

Post by Proziam »

peterwoerner wrote: post #160
Proziam wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I moved I arranged to live with some folks I knew through my online esports adventures in Umeå. At the time, I was seriously consider living there permanently and moving my business there. I really enjoyed the place but between family and personal goals it just wasn't destined to be a permanent move the way I had hoped. Interestingly (to me at least), I had gigabit internet in Umeå and I believe it only cost aro…

My dad said when he went to France for work (outside of Paris), they were no longer embarrassed by their poor English, once he shared his abysmal French.

I know an older German fellow who ran away from home as a child and ended up in France for quite some time. The way he tells it, the French would show no mercy as he would struggle to communicate. My personal experiences haven't been quite so terrible, thankfully.

At least the old man got some stories out of it!

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#168

Post by mgh2 »

1123581321 wrote: post #154
mgh2 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might work for outliers/higher IQ/elite people in the HN community, but consider this: 1. School is probably the best public invention to systematically distribute knowledge to the masses. Some like to point out "dropouts", "self-taught" geniuses or the "lucky few" as models instead of exceptions to the rule. 2. Not everyone is self-motivated to learn. Children, at critical developmental ages, are more prone to…

What is the basis for thinking public education is the best option for education or for political freedom? Must that always be the case if it once was true? Who would be letting a child go astray in a home education environment? Why would a reasonable parent in #3 not conclude that education can be provided via multiple potentially sources, including themselves and a good curriculum? Why would you not say homeschooli…

Compare the education system in 3rd world countries. Try telling their parents to do homeschooling and you will see how privileged we are.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#169

Post by absolutelyrad »

mgh2 wrote: post #133
eloff wrote: post #87

My brother and I were homeschooled, but it was quite structured and we wrote the same provincial exams as every other grade 12 kid. My brother did the SAT as well. We had excellent scores. We both dropped out of college with near perfect GPAs. Today I'm a successful self-taught software engineer now starting a SaaS business. My brother is a famous sci fi author. He makes even more than I do. I think homeschooling let…

This might work for outliers/higher IQ/elite people in the HN community, but consider this: 1. School is probably the best public invention to systematically distribute knowledge to the masses. Some like to point out "dropouts", "self-taught" geniuses or the "lucky few" as models instead of exceptions to the rule. 2. Not everyone is self-motivated to learn. Children, at critical developmental ages, are more prone to…

> 1. School is probably the best public invention to systematically distribute knowledge to the masses. Some like to point out "dropouts", "self-taught" geniuses or the "lucky few" as models instead of exceptions to the rule.

NO ITS NOT! This is a lie. There were reports in 1960's when the congress asked for an experiment to different ways of teaching. The children taught in a 1 to 1 way performed enormously better compared to the rest. And one of the worst ways was to teach is in mass. When the results came, they buried the report after it wasn't in their favor.

Schools are only good for above average intelligence people. If you want no one to be left behind then you should teach those who're slightly disadvantaged in a dedicated manner in 1 to 1 classes.

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