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Chess’s Cheating Crisis

theguardian.com

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Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#251

Post by nradov »

trhway wrote: post #248
nradov wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge natural variance between individuals that goes far beyond testosterone and includes height, bone density, vision, other hormones, etc. No one realistically expects a level playing field. But everyone has to play by the same arbitrary rules. In practice those differences only matter at elite levels; at casual amateur levels you can overcome natural disadvantages by training harder and playing smarter.…

>at casual amateur levels you can overcome natural disadvantages by training harder and playing smarter. no, it is just a feel good fairy tale. You're missing the point - amount of oxygen defines your speed/endurance/etc that you can reach. It is basic law of physics. Put a gas mask on and narrow the pipe half or even just a quarter - no amount of training will help you overcome that. I was an amateur boxer - 4th at…

None of that is correct. VO2max can be trained. You might not have the genetics to be able to reach 80 ml/kg/min like an elite professional endurance athlete but you can improve significantly from where you are now, if you're willing to put in the work. But just doing a bunch of running and hiking won't get you there. You'll have to follow a focused, goal oriented training plan. And it's going to hurt. This will also tend to boost natural testosterone production slightly, so there's a bit of a positive feedback loop.

If you have a legitimate medical condition then you can apply for a Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE) to take banned supplements while still being allowed to compete.

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/resources/therapeutic-use-exempt...

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#252

Post by reidmcy »

sudosysgen wrote: post #249
reidmcy wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example? I haven't seen any that are indistinguishable from humans

HIARCS or Lucas Chess are engines that have been made explicitly to play like a human. You won't be able to distinguish them, with some human play in conjunction, from a very strong human player.

Thanks, those do look like they are attempting to play like humans, but neither says how that claim was tested. How would you test the their ability to imitate humans?

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#253

Post by whatshisface »

specialist wrote: post #107
motohagiography wrote: post #57

The effects of adulterating the culture of a competition on a micro level work on a macro level as well. Saying it's caused by "pressure to succeed," is kind of dumb. If you want to know why cheating happens, look at the rewards of being seen as a winner vs. likelihood and consequences of being caught, and like cycling, there is an equilibrium change after which it becomes irrational not to cheat to find an edge. Peo…

"The system is broken when honest people have to cheat to compete."

"... when honest people would have to cheat to compete, but they don't (by definition), instead leaving, dropping the average culture even more."

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#254

Post by anthuswilliams »

dpb002 wrote: post #90

Old, player-who-used-to-be-serious here and my first thought was "Wow, Petrosian is still playing?" Turns out it is someone else...

I'm glad I saw your comment. I thought it was the older chess great and was disappointed to read something like this about him.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#255

Post by HeadsUpHigh »

noneeeed wrote: post #27
dalbasal wrote: post #18

“ Paranoia has become the culture ” This. For every actual cheating incident, there are many paranoid suspicions. Chess demands an intense focus, and this makes players react emotionally (see chess tantrums). Paranoia is one of these reactions. This "culture of paranoia" is generally pervasive, not just in chess. Once a paranoia inducing phenomenon (like cheating) exists, the paranoia pervades. People know fb & googl…

I've seen a lot of online conversations recently where the default assumption is that every Olympic sprinter, every cyclist or swimmet, basically every elite athlete is doping. It's pretty sad that we are in a world where you can work incredibly hard to make the most of natural talents and many people will assume you cheated.

Go to openpowerlifting.org rankings and compare the ipf raw records to all of the existing federations. The difference is staggering.

Any sport that requires a lot of peak or near peak strength is very likely full of drugs. And that doesn't detract from all the hard work these athletes put into their sport.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#256

Post by Hyolobrika »

the-dude wrote: post #218
wildmanx wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Morally, taking that hormone is still wrong. And so should it be according to the rules too. If you now answer that it's unfair that the person with naturally occurring higher levels can have it but those with lower levels can't "level" the playing field, well, tough luck. That's just the lottery that gives some people an advantage in certain sports. We all accept that some people are naturally tall and therefore hav…

So why do we have different leagues for men and women then?

Good question

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#257

Post by Hyolobrika »

brbsix wrote: post #32
tetris11 wrote: post #2

One way to get around the cameras and the invigilator in the room for a live chess match is to have a small wireless vibrating device somewhere on your body that can encode information such as coordinates and move difficulty. Someone else would have to be watching the game and doing the computer doping on tlyour behalf though

It would be easy enough to have a remote friend watching a mirror of your screen. Use an inductive loop earpiece hidden inside your ear hooked up to a phone and they could read out your next moves. I suppose you could write a program using CV to decode the opponents moves on screen and translate them into chess software in lieu of a friend performing the same task, but that's a bit overkill.

Would you need to use computer vision or could you just decode the state of the DOM if on a chess website or monitor the telnet connection if on FICS?

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#258

Post by zem »

lapetitejort wrote: post #173
bjourne wrote: post #77

I had a math exam a long while ago. One of those three hour long and the professor had me seated by myself in the math library. So I asked: - There's tons of math books here. How can you know I won't cheat? - Bjourne, do you intend to cheat? - No, of course not. - Alright. Good luck on your exam!

For some classes, especially as you get higher in fields, no amount of open books will help you in an exam. If you're able to figure out the material using a book then and there while not knowing it before, you deserve the grade.

yep, when I was an undergrad there was a physics prof who would give us six hour long unlimited resources exams, we were just on our honour not to ask other people for help

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#259

Post by glerk »

Waterluvian wrote: post #213
georgiecasey wrote: post #117

I used to cheat on chess.com. It started as a small bit of cheating here and there, just checking every now and then if the move I was going to make was the best. Of course, the computer always had a better move and then I examine the line and told myself I probably would have thought of that! Like a drug, it escalated and I was checking moves all the time. I was never caught but I was ashamed and just stopped playin…

I learned the “it sucks all joy out” lesson as a child when I cheated my entire way through Goldeneye 64. I got to the end and felt so unfulfilled. I discovered that you’re better off walking away from a game that feels so insurmountably difficult rather than cheat a bit or a lot. “I’m not going to finish so why not cheat to see the ending?” Was always disappointing. I’d rather that mountain still exist off in the di…

Cheating in a solo game is not as bad as cheating in a competitive game where you are misrepresenting your abilities to other players.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#260

Post by supersrdjan »

Waterluvian wrote: post #213
georgiecasey wrote: post #117

I used to cheat on chess.com. It started as a small bit of cheating here and there, just checking every now and then if the move I was going to make was the best. Of course, the computer always had a better move and then I examine the line and told myself I probably would have thought of that! Like a drug, it escalated and I was checking moves all the time. I was never caught but I was ashamed and just stopped playin…

I learned the “it sucks all joy out” lesson as a child when I cheated my entire way through Goldeneye 64. I got to the end and felt so unfulfilled. I discovered that you’re better off walking away from a game that feels so insurmountably difficult rather than cheat a bit or a lot. “I’m not going to finish so why not cheat to see the ending?” Was always disappointing. I’d rather that mountain still exist off in the di…

When I was a kid my dad prohibited me from using cheats in Civilization I :D And if I remember well, the cheats were readily available through a toggl in the dropdown menu
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