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Book of Lost Books Discovered in Danish Archive (2019)

smithsonianmag.com

21–28 of 28 posts

Re: Book of Lost Books Discovered in Danish Archive (2019)

#21
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a world of difference between “phone snaps of pages in library lighting” and a proper digitization of an antique book.

Not if your goal is to capture the text. I've used a phone for this purpose many times with nothing more than room lighting. Don't believe me? Try it yourself, right now! Remember that the HP archives burned down while waiting for a "proper digitization". Oops.

Ecce Homo is what happens when people who don't k ow what they're doing have a go anyway.

Re: Book of Lost Books Discovered in Danish Archive (2019)

#22
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see some of their digitized manuscripts here: https://manuscript.ku.dk/about/digitised_manuscripts/ They seem to know how to digitize a book. Do you have any legitimate reason to believe the University of Copenhagen "wrings their hands" and need a HN-reader with a smartphone to save them?

Have they scanned the book yet? Nope. Case closed.

I don't know if the book is already scanned or not? Note the article is a year and a half old. A multi-year project to create a digital edition is under way https://nors.ku.dk/english/research/arnamagnaean/the-book-of... but will run til 2023. Of course scanning is just a small part of this.

I seriously doubt that taking photos with a smartphone will be faster than using professional equipment. The scanners have automated and semi-automated page turners which can be used depending on the state of the book. The have "beds" for holding fragile books which cannot be opened fully.

Digitization is certainly an important part of preservation, but speedily leafing through a fragile old book with a smartphone in one hand is not the way to do it. They inspect the material very carefully even before the scanning because it would be pretty dumb to destroy the book in the process.

Re: Book of Lost Books Discovered in Danish Archive (2019)

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many archives have lost their books due to fire, war, flood and theft. Texts are lost all the time because no copies exist. What don't I understand? There's the HP archives that burned down, for one. For another, in a vault at the bottom of the World Trade Center, there was an archive of thousands of unpublished Kennedy photos. No copies were made of those photos. You'd think it would be safe in that vault. Nope. All…

You're assuming the worst without knowing the situation. It's not my area at all but - 650 year old books may be fragile, both in paper (or whatever) and in the bindings. - old books/codices/etc often displayed under low light conditions because light damages them. A phone light may not be healthy. - how does it feel when someone clearly with less knowledge than you pops up to tell you where you're going wrong with D…

> Don't assume people are being stupid and you're the only smart one.

Sometimes really smart people do things in really suboptimal ways because of tradition or other blindspots, and an outside perspective can break a person or a field out of a local minimum.

Maybe it's already being done, but installing a low-light camera above whatever workbench they use to analyze these ancient books with a footpedal or something to capture an image would provide some insurance against loss before proper archival, even if they don't open every page due to fragility.

> A phone light may not be healthy.

Modern cell phone cameras are quite capable of taking images without the flash in very low light conditions, either through high ISO or long exposures.

Re: Book of Lost Books Discovered in Danish Archive (2019)

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many archives have lost their books due to fire, war, flood and theft. Texts are lost all the time because no copies exist. What don't I understand? There's the HP archives that burned down, for one. For another, in a vault at the bottom of the World Trade Center, there was an archive of thousands of unpublished Kennedy photos. No copies were made of those photos. You'd think it would be safe in that vault. Nope. All…

You're assuming the worst without knowing the situation. It's not my area at all but - 650 year old books may be fragile, both in paper (or whatever) and in the bindings. - old books/codices/etc often displayed under low light conditions because light damages them. A phone light may not be healthy. - how does it feel when someone clearly with less knowledge than you pops up to tell you where you're going wrong with D…

> fragile

Sure. But you're still gonna have to open it and turn the pages whatever scanner you use. And the book is open in the photo of it. If the photographer had moved a little closer, I bet you could read the text.

> A phone light may not be healthy

The thing is, you and I have phones in our pockets and can test this theory. It's an overcast day in Seattle. I turned out the room lights. It's too dark for me to read comfortably, in fact, I have to struggle to read. Took out my phone, took a picture (phone light off). I can read the text in the photograph just fine (though it's not as sharp as taking it with more light). I didn't even use a stand, I held the phone in my shaky hand. I only took one snap, not a bunch and select the best.

You and everyone else can do this experiment yourself. But instead, you assumed it wouldn't work.

> pops up to tell you where you're going wrong with D?

Sometimes they're right. How do I feel about it? I feel embarrassed. But it's hard to deny reality, and I accept my lumps and move on.

> Don't assume people are being stupid and you're the only smart one.

Don't assume I'm wrong about the phone camera without trying it yourself. I have tried it myself. I use my phone all the time to make copies of things it is inconvenient or impractical to scan, like oversize scrapbooks.

I challenge you to point your phone at documents you have at your desk and try it.

BTW, the phone camera also works great at literally taking "screenshops" of my computer screen. I do it because it's faster/easier than doing screen grabs.

Re: Book of Lost Books Discovered in Danish Archive (2019)

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming the worst without knowing the situation. It's not my area at all but - 650 year old books may be fragile, both in paper (or whatever) and in the bindings. - old books/codices/etc often displayed under low light conditions because light damages them. A phone light may not be healthy. - how does it feel when someone clearly with less knowledge than you pops up to tell you where you're going wrong with D…

> fragile Sure. But you're still gonna have to open it and turn the pages whatever scanner you use. And the book is open in the photo of it. If the photographer had moved a little closer, I bet you could read the text. > A phone light may not be healthy The thing is, you and I have phones in our pockets and can test this theory. It's an overcast day in Seattle. I turned out the room lights. It's too dark for me to re…

To you, and @nitrogen, you make your points well, I retract all mine. Thanx & upvoted.

Re: Book of Lost Books Discovered in Danish Archive (2019)

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fragile Sure. But you're still gonna have to open it and turn the pages whatever scanner you use. And the book is open in the photo of it. If the photographer had moved a little closer, I bet you could read the text. > A phone light may not be healthy The thing is, you and I have phones in our pockets and can test this theory. It's an overcast day in Seattle. I turned out the room lights. It's too dark for me to re…

To you, and @nitrogen, you make your points well, I retract all mine. Thanx & upvoted.

Wow, that's never happened to me before here! You da man!

Re: Book of Lost Books Discovered in Danish Archive (2019)

#27
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if your goal is to capture the text. I've used a phone for this purpose many times with nothing more than room lighting. Don't believe me? Try it yourself, right now! Remember that the HP archives burned down while waiting for a "proper digitization". Oops.

- The HP archives had been moved to a building without any protection. Before that the archives used to be in special vaults with fire-protection. (ref. spectrum.ieee.org) - There doesn't appear to have been plans to digitize them, not at a large scale anyway - these were papers and notes and documents in a wide variety of formats, tricky to digitize unless you have a professional organization to do so (e.g. a museum…

> these were papers and notes and documents in a wide variety of formats, tricky to digitize unless you have a professional organization to do so

No, they are not tricky to digitize. Throw some random pieces of paper in various sizes and formats on the floor. Pull out your phone and take a picture and see for yourself.

For example, when I mail someone a package at the post office, they hand me a receipt with the tracking number. I hold the receipt in my left hand, take a phone photo of it with my other left hand, and text it to the addressee. Zip, boom, done. Works great.

The phone camera is simply the greatest document scanner ever invented, and everybody has one!

> not safely

Fireproof vaults have burned. See what happened to the Kennedy photo archive in the safe vault in the basement of the WTC.

HP likely didn't scan them because they didn't have budget for a "proper digitization". So rather than cheap snaps with a phone camera, they now have nothing.

Re: Book of Lost Books Discovered in Danish Archive (2019)

#28
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they scanned the book yet? Nope. Case closed.

I don't know if the book is already scanned or not? Note the article is a year and a half old. A multi-year project to create a digital edition is under way https://nors.ku.dk/english/research/arnamagnaean/the-book-of... but will run til 2023. Of course scanning is just a small part of this. I seriously doubt that taking photos with a smartphone will be faster than using professional equipment. The scanners have auto…

> Note the article is a year and a half old.

Indeed, and I meant when the article was written.

You're not going to use an automated page turner on anything fragile. Note that the book was open fully for the photograph for the article.

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