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Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

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Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#61

Post by monocasa »

reaperducer wrote: post #58
monocasa wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they going to have representation when they're in Russia and not communicating with the US justice system? Even a public defender being present requires you to affirmatively agree to them being your lawyer, or else you defend yourself at trial. There's no way to have a trial in the US without them being present.

How are they going to have representation when they're in Russia and not communicating with the US justice system? The same way it was done all those times when American people sued the Iranian government in American courts. This is not new ground. This has been going on for at least half a century.

The civil system used for lawsuits is very different than the criminal system used for these indictments. The civil system allows summary judgments for not showing up, but the criminal system does not.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#62

Post by the-dude »

mullingitover wrote: post #60
the-dude wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I start reading [2], scroll to 2016 only to find a tremendous list of unconvincing mini-facts? How does this end up on Wikipedia?

What's 'mini' about facts like "Trump lied to voters about his efforts to build a Trump Tower in Moscow while he was campaigning, and his personal lawyer went to prison for lying to congress to cover up that project" ? If you're interested in more, there's the very sizable list, "Links between Trump associates and Russian officials" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates...

That is a prime example of what I would call 'mini'. How is that remotely 'Russian interference'?

I am from NL, and I will raise you : our current Prime Minister promised all citizens € 1000. Guess what? We never got it.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#63

Post by mullingitover »

the-dude wrote: post #62
mullingitover wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's 'mini' about facts like "Trump lied to voters about his efforts to build a Trump Tower in Moscow while he was campaigning, and his personal lawyer went to prison for lying to congress to cover up that project" ? If you're interested in more, there's the very sizable list, "Links between Trump associates and Russian officials" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates...

That is a prime example of what I would call 'mini'. How is that remotely 'Russian interference'? I am from NL, and I will raise you : our current Prime Minister promised all citizens € 1000. Guess what? We never got it.

Russia interferes on Trump's behalf. Trump campaign wins, promotes policies that are beneficial to Russia (slow walking support for Ukraine, attacking NATO, generally gutting the State Department, and a plethora of other moves that cripple US soft power, edit: Oh, and how could I forget sanctions relief and readmission to G8?), and Putin approves a real estate project that benefits Trump financially. It's telling that Trump is the first president in history not to divest himself of his global financial stakes, which represent a massive conflict of interest.

Pretty basic garden variety bribery.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#64

Post by PeterisP »

kasperni wrote: post #4

Can someone explain how individuals are identified when we are talking about state sponsored hackers?

It's often through a single mistake made once that allows you to link some pseudonymous profile to a real person. For example, I recall reading about a particular case where some command&control server was identified and being monitored, and once one of the operators accidentally logged in to his personal profile on a social media site over the 'secure VPN' connection.

Also, there have been cases where authorities have been 'subcontracting' certain services or tools from local cyber criminals working on online financial fraud - where those criminals were later arrested abroad, and have agreed to testify against their former partners/employers.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#65

Post by the-dude »

mullingitover wrote: post #63
the-dude wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a prime example of what I would call 'mini'. How is that remotely 'Russian interference'? I am from NL, and I will raise you : our current Prime Minister promised all citizens € 1000. Guess what? We never got it.

Russia interferes on Trump's behalf. Trump campaign wins, promotes policies that are beneficial to Russia (slow walking support for Ukraine, attacking NATO, generally gutting the State Department, and a plethora of other moves that cripple US soft power, edit: Oh, and how could I forget sanctions relief and readmission to G8?), and Putin approves a real estate project that benefits Trump financially. It's telling tha…

I agree it reads like a spy novel.

Is there any reason to believe the project would not have been approved without the alleged favors?

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#66

Post by mullingitover »

the-dude wrote: post #65
mullingitover wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia interferes on Trump's behalf. Trump campaign wins, promotes policies that are beneficial to Russia (slow walking support for Ukraine, attacking NATO, generally gutting the State Department, and a plethora of other moves that cripple US soft power, edit: Oh, and how could I forget sanctions relief and readmission to G8?), and Putin approves a real estate project that benefits Trump financially. It's telling tha…

I agree it reads like a spy novel. Is there any reason to believe the project would not have been approved without the alleged favors?

Does any project of that size get approved in Moscow without favors?

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#67

Post by rland »

dx87 wrote: post #43
ineedasername wrote: post #40

I'm torn when it comes to the utility of making public indictments of this sort when the truth is there will never be any arrest or trial. Making them public lets Russia know we're aware of their actions, which in turn may drive them to greater efforts to make these actions harder to detect and therefore harder to defend against. I also wonder if making these public, detrimental and unnecessary, is just a cynical plo…

It could also just be done as a thinly veiled threat to discourage people from working there. Even if nobody is arrested, the statement is basically saying "it doesn't matter where you are, or how secretive your work is, we can find you". I can imagine spouses and family would suggest they start looking for a different job after seeing the announcment.

But this is only six people. I'm sure they have hundreds or thousands of people working on "the America project" at the GRU.

We nailed 6 of them. So what? Foreign intelligence agencies weed out a CIA spy every now and then, but that doesn't seem to deter the CIA.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#68

Post by dredmorbius »

ineedasername wrote: post #40

I'm torn when it comes to the utility of making public indictments of this sort when the truth is there will never be any arrest or trial. Making them public lets Russia know we're aware of their actions, which in turn may drive them to greater efforts to make these actions harder to detect and therefore harder to defend against. I also wonder if making these public, detrimental and unnecessary, is just a cynical plo…

Similar in ways to a burn notice:

an official statement issued by an intelligence agency to other agencies. It states that an asset or intelligence source is unreliable for one or several reasons, often fabrication, and must be officially disavowed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn_notice_(document)

And yes, the video series of the same name is based on the concept.

Here it's effectively a reputational attack which renders its target only viable to, and therefore beholden to, the initiating actor for whom the work/activity triggering the notice was performed.

The notice also tips the issueing agency's hand as to surveillence and intelligence capabilities, and puts on notice others performing similar work, both specifically referenced by USDoJ.

A key aspect of much (not all) state-actor covert ops is impunity. This may be actual legal immunity (e.g., diplomatic cover), or simply the threats of national-level retaliation (across a wide range: sanctions, diplomatic, treaty, counterespionage or ops, military, international courts, UN or other internattional entity sanctions). The impunity is strong but not absolute.

The US DoJ's indictment has little power inside Russia, at least under that country's present leadership, but has significant import elsewhere, including outside the US, or under a possible future Russian government. Say, perhaps, one lead by targets of the present leadership.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#69

Post by dredmorbius »

cameldrv wrote: post #59
dx87 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could also just be done as a thinly veiled threat to discourage people from working there. Even if nobody is arrested, the statement is basically saying "it doesn't matter where you are, or how secretive your work is, we can find you". I can imagine spouses and family would suggest they start looking for a different job after seeing the announcment.

It also means that they can't visit countries with an extradition treaty with the U.S. This is not the biggest penalty ever but it's something.

Also assets, interests, and possibly more.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#70

Post by handol »

yters wrote: post #49
grumio wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: Just because the public announcement may be construed as propaganda, it doesn't mean that the charges were necessarily wholly made-up. The case for it being propaganda goes something like this: Barr's DoJ is making this charge publicly released so that the US can appear to be "tough on Russia." Despite Trump failing to condemn Navalny's Novichok poisoning or taking action regarding the intel on Russian blood-bo…

That seems a pretty wide scope for propaganda. Then anything that puts Trump in a good light becomes propaganda, even if it is a legitimate good thing that happened in his administration, and even if it has nothing to do with Trump. This whole Russiagate thing is super confusing on both sides.

Propaganda is a pretty wide term.
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