Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware • Hacker News Board

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#31

Post by mullingitover » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 6:29 PM UTC

factsaresacred wrote: post #23

pjc50 wrote: post #5

Keeping this to post under all those comments saying there was nothing to "Russiagate".

"Russiagate" is commonly used to refer to the accusation that Trump colluded with the Russian state to determine the outcome of the 2016 election. The Special Counsel investigation found no evidence of collusion. Or is everything involving Russia now its own "Russiagate"?

They weren't able to prove collusion directly (and listed repeated efforts by the administration to obstruct justice), but they found that Russia helped the Trump campaign proactively and they welcomed the foreign assistance[1].

So the Trump campaign welcomed the Russian election interference, of which there was a breathtaking amount[2]. It's also telling that Trump, who never has spared an unkind word for anyone, has never spoken ill of Russia for his entire term.

It's also worth noting that the special counsel was never allowed to indict the President, or even say that indictable conduct occurred, due to Justice Department policy. The absolute strongest available language that they could use was that their report didn't exonerate the President, and that's exactly what the report said.

[1] https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-mueller-report-tr...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Russian_interferen...

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#32

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #9

pjc50 wrote: post #5

Keeping this to post under all those comments saying there was nothing to "Russiagate".

A press release for indictments for people you're never going to arrest or have a trial for is nothing more than propaganda. If they actually cared about catching these people, they'd keep the indictments secret so that they might go to a country that has an extradition treaty with the US.

[deleted]

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#33

Post by somurzakov » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

kasperni wrote: post #4

Can someone explain how individuals are identified when we are talking about state sponsored hackers?

they probably have a database of the entire GRU hackers squad (Unit 74455) and cross-matched the actions with people's background (people have resumes, social networks, educational background, etc.).

also google location services might have some data on them too

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#34

Post by ciarannolan » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

kasperni wrote: post #4

Can someone explain how individuals are identified when we are talking about state sponsored hackers?

In the past they have texted specific GRU agents on their personal phones: https://www.wired.com/story/cyber-command-ira-strike-sends-s...

> As The New York Times reported last October, Cyber Command operators sent direct messages to individual Russian staffers that they had identified as involved in election interference, and were tracking their activity. The Post reports that the IRA was troubled enough by those messages that they launched an internal investigation to identify potential leakers.

I have a feeling that the US and allied countries are pretty deep into the Russians with this stuff.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#35

Post by monocasa » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #29

monocasa wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A press release for indictments for people you're never going to arrest or have a trial for is nothing more than propaganda. If they actually cared about catching these people, they'd keep the indictments secret so that they might go to a country that has an extradition treaty with the US.

A press release for indictments for people you're never going to arrest or have a trial for is nothing more than propaganda. They can have the trial without arrests. It happens all the time. If convicted, then they are sanctioned, or face some other externally-viable penalty. Often through restricting their ability to travel to allied countries and use the banking systems outside their home country.

Trial in absentia is very illegal in the united states. Our adversarial system requires their chosen council to be present to function correctly and the supreme court as affirmed this fact.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#36

Post by grumio » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 6:34 PM UTC

yters wrote: post #18

monocasa wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A press release for indictments for people you're never going to arrest or have a trial for is nothing more than propaganda. If they actually cared about catching these people, they'd keep the indictments secret so that they might go to a country that has an extradition treaty with the US.

I am even more confused by this comment. How is this propaganda?

Edit: Just because the public announcement may be construed as propaganda, it doesn't mean that the charges were necessarily wholly made-up.

The case for it being propaganda goes something like this: Barr's DoJ is making this charge publicly released so that the US can appear to be "tough on Russia." Despite Trump failing to condemn Navalny's Novichok poisoning or taking action regarding the intel on Russian blood-bounties on US soldiers. This would follow the pattern of other pro-Trump (painting him as a victim, or strong-man where convenient) politicized DoJ announcements such as 9 ballots being found in the trash, including noting that 7 of them were cast for Trump.

https://www.axios.com/trump-russia-bounties-taliban-putin-ca... https://www.axios.com/trump-alexei-navalny-poisoning-russia-... https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdpa/pr/revised-statement-us-at...

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#37

Post by reaperducer » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 6:38 PM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #35

reaperducer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A press release for indictments for people you're never going to arrest or have a trial for is nothing more than propaganda. They can have the trial without arrests. It happens all the time. If convicted, then they are sanctioned, or face some other externally-viable penalty. Often through restricting their ability to travel to allied countries and use the banking systems outside their home country.

Trial in absentia is very illegal in the united states. Our adversarial system requires their chosen council to be present to function correctly and the supreme court as affirmed this fact.

No one stated that they wouldn't have representation. The OP posited that the people responsible would never be arrested

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#38

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 6:39 PM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #9

pjc50 wrote: post #5

Keeping this to post under all those comments saying there was nothing to "Russiagate".

A press release for indictments for people you're never going to arrest or have a trial for is nothing more than propaganda. If they actually cared about catching these people, they'd keep the indictments secret so that they might go to a country that has an extradition treaty with the US.

[deleted]

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#39

Post by monocasa » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #37

monocasa wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trial in absentia is very illegal in the united states. Our adversarial system requires their chosen council to be present to function correctly and the supreme court as affirmed this fact.

No one stated that they wouldn't have representation. The OP posited that the people responsible would never be arrested

How are they going to have representation when they're in Russia and not communicating with the US justice system?

Even a public defender being present requires you to affirmatively agree to them being your lawyer, or else you defend yourself at trial.

There's no way to have a trial in the US without them being present.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#40

Post by ineedasername » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 6:47 PM UTC

I'm torn when it comes to the utility of making public indictments of this sort when the truth is there will never be any arrest or trial.

Making them public lets Russia know we're aware of their actions, which in turn may drive them to greater efforts to make these actions harder to detect and therefore harder to defend against. I also wonder if making these public, detrimental and unnecessary, is just a cynical ploy before an election to give the appearance that this administration has been tough on Russia, when actual toughness on Russia would mean not just indictments, but also sanctions and other tangible consequences.

On the other hand, absent legal accountability for these individuals and Russia itself, making these indictments public allows the rest of the world to see & know what Russia is up to. That might facilitate action through the softer power of diplomacy, and perhaps also put other countries on notice that they must take greater care in protecting their critical systems as well. And if it is the correct choice to do so, then any political benefit, cynically motivated or not, is an ancillary factor.

I suppose it may be a tough balance to strike. I think I come down on the side of making these issues public knowledge. Just as I similarly believe bad actions on the part of the US should be available for public scrutiny whenever it does not jeopardize the lives and safety of those who fight for our country.