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White noise as sleep aid may do more harm than good, say scientists

theguardian.com

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Re: White noise as sleep aid may do more harm than good, say scientists

#61

Post by obscoth »

dingle3 wrote: post #48
tzs wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on that comment I was expecting to find an article that was either written by someone from an app company, or that heavily talked about a particular app and its benefits. Nope. Here's what dingle3 is complaining about. After 8 paragraphs on white noise and its affects on sleep, the last scientist they quotes this in paragraph 8: > Prof Christian Cajochen, who heads the Centre for Chronobiology at the University…

the entire things reads like someone trying to push an alternative. there is no evidence in one direction or the other, and nothing is really being said with any conviction. native advertising is real, and subtlety is key sometimes. if this was not sponsored by the app mentioned in the last paragraph, i'd be very surprised.

You must be very surprised a lot

Re: White noise as sleep aid may do more harm than good, say scientists

#62

Post by darepublic »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #20

The article makes it sound like the alternative to white noise is luxurious, dead silence. But, especially in the city, the alternative is usually just patches of semi-silence interrupted by loud or sharp things. Dogs barking, a police siren, the neighbor coming home at 3am, your partner flushing the toilet, inexplicable noises that start and then stop before you realize why you're up. I listen to white noise like a…

I remember when I moved downtown having a hard time sleeping for these reasons. There were some cop cars that would drive around in the early am hours and seemingly play their sirens in beatboxing patterns just for the hell of it. I eventually just became adapted to it and could sleep through any noise after about a year

Re: White noise as sleep aid may do more harm than good, say scientists

#63

Post by blain_the_train »

bookofjoe wrote: post #27
Reason077 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there are lots of “sleep headphones” like these. But they are not noise cancelling.

Good point. I'm surprised they don't offer a noise-canceling option.

Because noise cancelling only works on constant noise. So if you use it at sleep time, load sudden noises will seem more alarming.

Re: White noise as sleep aid may do more harm than good, say scientists

#64

Post by graeme »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #23
burntoutfire wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a tinnitus, so I have a fan running in every room of my apartment to (partially) cover it with a white noise. I live alone right now but I wonder how many women, if they were to live with me (in a relationship), would be ok with it. BTW the biggest win in getting a good sleep for me has been making sure my bedroom is properly ventilated, so that I have low levels of CO2. Since I started doing that, my sleeping…

I’ve never heard about CO2 contributing to sleep issues. What did you do to diagnose and remediate this?

Oh, I’m not OP but I forgot to add that the standard remediations are pretty simple: airflow.

Open a door and open a window. Pretty much nothing else does it, though an air exchanger in a home ventilation system can help.

This of course can get complicated by light (the door), sound (door and window), pollution (window) and heat/cold (window). So your local setup may vary.

In my own case the big challenge is winter. But usually just a small crack is enough to lower co2 a fair bit during the cold season.

Re: White noise as sleep aid may do more harm than good, say scientists

#65

Post by graeme »

mdbauman wrote: post #19
graeme wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder, can others not hear their pulse through their pillow when in a dead quiet room? That’s called pulsatile tinnitus. I used to hear silence, then after a jaw injury I started hearing my pulse and eventually ringing. But no normally you wouldn’t.

Thank you, that's good to know. I always thought it was normal and people other than me just got used to the pulse noise.

Huh, I hadn’t realized but apparently some of the causes can be trouble.

If you or anyone reading this any possibility of cardiac issues (high blood pressure, clogged arteries), it would be worth mentioning at your next checkup.

Mine was pretty clearly linked to an injury that eventually caused other tinnitus so I assumed the causes were similar. Note that per the link below pulsatile tinnitus can be quite benign, but is does have some causes worth excluding.

https://www.healthline.com/health/pulsatile-tinnitus

Re: White noise as sleep aid may do more harm than good, say scientists

#66

Post by mgkimsal »

Reason077 wrote: post #43
mgkimsal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

haven't tried 'sleep buds' in particular, but had tried a different product ($399!) and... the 'white noise' sound they had had some noticeable ... frequency that my brain locked in to. After about 3 days it was impossible to use them - my brain actively stayed awake with them in, trying to find the sounds it 'knew' were there. Switched to bose QC20 and... they're generally great ... except... don't sleep in them! Th…

I've had Sony WH-1000XM3's for the past year and I sleep with them all the time. I probably roll over and crush them pretty regularly, but they seem very robust. They're very comfortable to wear for long periods (if you don't roll over on to your side, that is). Excellent noise cancellation too. I did have older/cheaper Sony ANC headphones previously which broke at the hinges, but these seem unbreakable (touch wood).

wow - glad that works for you! I love my Bose, but can't sleep in them. The ear piece inevitably 'cracks'; just a hairline crack turns the ANC in to an ear-piercing squeal. :/

Re: White noise as sleep aid may do more harm than good, say scientists

#67

Post by mleonhard »

closeparen wrote: post #57
benji_is_me wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried using ear plugs? I've found they work well for me outside of when I need to use an alarm.

Sometimes I feel like an alien when people suggest earplugs for noise problems. Maybe I just process sound very differently. Earplugs succeed at exactly one task: attenuating dangerous sound levels down to comfortable ones. The don't reduce the amount of information. A 30dB conversation is exactly as distracting as a 60dB conversation. I also have custom fitted IEMs that provide similar attenuation. These are equally…

Which earplugs did you try and what is their frequency attenuation? If they are designed for musicians, they may attenuate all frequencies equally.

I often sleep with Ohropax foam earplugs. They eliminate the high frequencies like sirens. They reduce the mid-range and low frequencies, too. Conversation becomes muffled quiet mumbling. Noises can transmit through the frame of the frame of the building, my bed frame, my mattress, my pillow, and my head. Luckily, such noises are rare in my building. I'm not distracted by my body's internal sounds.

I tried many many kinds of earplugs. The Ohropax ones work the best for me. I can wear them for 2-3 sleep cycles (3-4.5 hours) before my ears hurt, but only if I insert them far enough into my ears. For smaller ears, Mack's Dreamgirl earplugs are good.

https://www.amazon.com/Ohropax-Soft-Foam-Ear-Plugs/dp/B000V3...

https://www.amazon.com/Macks-Dreamgirl-Soft-Foam-Earplugs/dp...

Re: White noise as sleep aid may do more harm than good, say scientists

#68

Post by ry454 »

graeme wrote: post #65
mdbauman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, that's good to know. I always thought it was normal and people other than me just got used to the pulse noise.

Huh, I hadn’t realized but apparently some of the causes can be trouble. If you or anyone reading this any possibility of cardiac issues (high blood pressure, clogged arteries), it would be worth mentioning at your next checkup. Mine was pretty clearly linked to an injury that eventually caused other tinnitus so I assumed the causes were similar. Note that per the link below pulsatile tinnitus can be quite benign, bu…

I won't be surprised if FFT of tinnitus, if we could make one, reveals a very accurate picture of the patient's health.

Re: White noise as sleep aid may do more harm than good, say scientists

#69

Post by Biganon »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #31
Vaslo wrote: post #7

I use a machine built just for this purpose. It’s a fan that stays on until morning. I cannot have a restful sleep without it - if someone in the house coughs or a slightly louder car drives by, ill be awake. Then I’ll spend part of the night worrying about things like a financial result at work or whether or not I locked the basement door.

> Then I’ll spend part of the night worrying about things like a financial result at work or whether or not I locked the basement door. May I gently suggest that it sounds like you're papering over the real problem?

Agreed, this person needs a smart lock on their basement door so they can monitor its status at any time.

Re: White noise as sleep aid may do more harm than good, say scientists

#70

Post by mint2 »

cdubzzz wrote: post #5

> True white noise is the hissy fizzing sound of all the frequencies that humans can hear being fired off randomly and at the same intensity. In recent years, numerous apps and devices have been developed that use it – or other “relaxing” sounds such as the hum of a fan or crashing waves – to help people fall asleep. The title of the article seems to be inaccurate in that it is discussing other sounds, _not_ “true” w…

Actually the title and the first half of the article is all misleading. Only near the very end does the actual thing the article is claiming become clear, and it’s still subtle. Basically it’s a terribly written article about a use case of white noise that I think is not the typical use case. The article appears to be about using white noise to fall asleep due to ones’ mental state, and not about white noise to cover up other disrupting sounds. It makes no sense to me that someone would cover it from that angle.
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