The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights • Hacker News Board

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#311

Post by scottlocklin » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 8:35 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #167

scottlocklin wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You fail to understand the fact that everyone's going to get it. You can't control that fact, not even by blowing up the economy. The best thing you can do if you're afraid is to wear a mask and take vitamin-D (or go outside to get some). Unless there is a miraculous breakthrough in vaccines, which seems unlikely in current year, this disease will be with us for the rest of your life. Just like the flu. If it works l…

You can do reasonable steps (masks, distance, no big events) that keep the infection rate to a minimum until we can get a vaccine approved and administered to 95% of the population in 1-2 years time. Maybe we will live with strains of the virus forever, but that's not the problem. We have many diseases among us that are harmless in childhood and much worse later in live, but they are much more harmless both because p…

You can do whatever makes you feel better: everyone who is not living in a bubble is getting it, vaccine or no vaccine. Notice how we wiped out the flu with the flu vaccine back in 1956? Yeah, me neither. Lung borne viral ailments do not work that way.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#312

Post by jjeaff » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

nickthemagicman wrote: post #298

starfallg wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opinion pieces? The first link is a study that measured the amount of droplets that each mask type blocks using optical equipment.

You had one semi-legit study amongst all 10 or so links! The rest were editorial articles or blog articles! ONE! Talk about disinformation. Too bad it's a pointless study. Everyone knows masks stop droplets. But do masks stop Covid at a community level... given the fact that one is applying a plague vector directly to one's respiratory tract for a virus that stays on surfaces for days? Sweden and Norway had no mask m…

You are going to have to go way back in the medical literature to find many peer reviewed studies on masks.

For the same reason it might be hard to find recent studies proving that blood letting is not efficacious.

It's basic physics and statistics. A germ of a certain size can only fit through a certain size whole. Masks of any type will reduce the number of particles and thus reduce your chances of contracting. Same goes for your statistical likely hood of spreading to others.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#313

Post by BurningFrog » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #172

BurningFrog wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an epic side track, but the argument you could make is that Germany's choice at the time was between Nazi-ism and Stalin controlled communism. Liberal democracy was a distant third option that had no real chance. We know the Nazi option turned out very very bad. But it's possible a German/Soviet Stalinist block would have been even worse.

No, this is absolutely not true. First, the second most probable outcome was non-nazi military dictatorship that almost happened. Second, the other largest party was strogly pro democracy. They were called social democrats and were definitely not communist. Trying to cast them as such is just repeating nazi propaganda.

You're assuming election results would have continued to be respected.

Neither communists or nazis had any interest in that.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#314

Post by 0x6862 » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

starfallg wrote: post #141

cwhiz wrote: post #130

In this forum, right here on HN, people routinely espouse desire for more authoritarian restrictions. People gleefully discuss Sweden and almost openly hope that their lockdown-free plan fails. The article makes it sound as if the erosion of democracy is coming from the top. In the USA, it’s coming from the bottom. It’s coming from everyday citizens.

People aren't asking for authoritarian restrictions. People have been asking for common-sense coordinated and effective measures that we can all rally around (like wearing masks). Instead we have ineffective politically driven responses marked by indecision and incompetence. People don't want lockdowns, but we recognise that because our containment measures have failed, we have no choice but to shut things. If you do…

I believe the common sense solution is to protect the vulnerable and elderly, yet I’ve been in complete lockdown for over 6 months. Lockdowns were never the solution to pandemics prior, so why now?

People don’t wear masks correctly at all, they don’t wash it, they don’t pull it down and fiddle with it every other minute. There has been no attempt at public education around this where I live. Old age homes have been severely understaffed, provided with no PPE, have allowed visitors, and their staff have not been continually tested. Over 80% of the deaths in my state have came from these homes alone

Before taking away almost all of a person’s fundamental rights you have to at least try these less restrictive measures. People have been arrested in their home when they’ve made a fb post about protesting the restrictions. The worst part, there is no lack of people supporting these measures. Only recently has it become politically unpopular

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#315

Post by treeman79 » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 9:38 PM UTC

colejohnson66 wrote: post #299

treeman79 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had several boat parades involving many thousands of boats, crowds of tens of thousands. Media had a brief report that a boat flipped over. No other mention of the rally. Seeing daily rallies and parades Driving around now. Zero mention on local news channels. Drove threw 3 states. We saw one Biden bumper sticker. No signs. Thousands of Trump signs. Media is extremely biased in its reporting.

> Drove threw 3 states. We saw one Biden bumper sticker. No signs. Thousands of Trump signs. Is it at all possible that those three states were “red” states?

2 out of 3

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#316

Post by treeman79 » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

starfallg wrote: post #267

treeman79 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Note the words "reasonable", here meaning "proportionate". We're not advocating mob rule here. We're asking you to wear a mask, not to kill your first-born.

I was in the middle of treatments when lock downs started. Then I lost Access to all my doctors. Thankfully things worked out eventually, but had some bad scares.

So yea, Lockdowns put me personally at risk. And since I have young daughters that puts them at risk for being homeless.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#317

Post by flarg » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #130

In this forum, right here on HN, people routinely espouse desire for more authoritarian restrictions. People gleefully discuss Sweden and almost openly hope that their lockdown-free plan fails. The article makes it sound as if the erosion of democracy is coming from the top. In the USA, it’s coming from the bottom. It’s coming from everyday citizens.

Whatever anyone else says here, you're on the money. In the UK we overreact to almost any issue and no longer just in the red top newspapers, but also on radio and TV. It's been like this for decades and it's messed up.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#318

Post by tim333 » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 9:54 PM UTC

0x6862 wrote: post #314

starfallg wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't asking for authoritarian restrictions. People have been asking for common-sense coordinated and effective measures that we can all rally around (like wearing masks). Instead we have ineffective politically driven responses marked by indecision and incompetence. People don't want lockdowns, but we recognise that because our containment measures have failed, we have no choice but to shut things. If you do…

I believe the common sense solution is to protect the vulnerable and elderly, yet I’ve been in complete lockdown for over 6 months. Lockdowns were never the solution to pandemics prior, so why now? People don’t wear masks correctly at all, they don’t wash it, they don’t pull it down and fiddle with it every other minute. There has been no attempt at public education around this where I live. Old age homes have been s…

I'm not sure the western style lockdowns work very well. In places like Thailand they try to identify the infected and then put them in separate quarantine facilities rather than making them stay home where they can infect others. The local transmission there and places like Vietnam with similar policies is now basically zero. There's a bit of an imposition on your freedom if you get quarantined - I did there but it's only 2-4 weeks and only like 0.01% of the population so overall it's probably less of an imposition than the half arsed mess we have in England where I now am. Also the deaths have been like 1000x less.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#319

Post by nickthemagicman » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 9:55 PM UTC

starfallg wrote: post #307

nickthemagicman wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had one semi-legit study amongst all 10 or so links! The rest were editorial articles or blog articles! ONE! Talk about disinformation. Too bad it's a pointless study. Everyone knows masks stop droplets. But do masks stop Covid at a community level... given the fact that one is applying a plague vector directly to one's respiratory tract for a virus that stays on surfaces for days? Sweden and Norway had no mask m…

If you actually looked at each of the other links, you'd noticed that they were all valid. I just picked the first one as an example of how seriously we should take your words at. Now you start going on a tangent with meta-analysis of statistical data, comparing Sweden with America with no appreciation of the difference in the culture, lifestyle and handling of the coronavirus and then attribute their relatively good…

If...editorial articles...count as valid scientific publications...than I'm going to write an editorial saying poop is gold, eat some taco bell, and retire!

"""comparing Sweden with America with no appreciation of the difference in the culture, lifestyle and handling of the coronavirus """

Where is the science regarding your claim that cultural differences invalidate country Covid rate comparisons.

I see that in some of your historical comments on this site you compare different countries Covid rates despite their cultural and lifestyle differences.

https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=starfallg&next=22685...

Why does it not count in Sweden's case? Is one only allowed to compare countries when it supports your narrative?

Can you please give me a break and be intellectually honest for two seconds?

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#320

Post by nickthemagicman » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 9:58 PM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #312

nickthemagicman wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had one semi-legit study amongst all 10 or so links! The rest were editorial articles or blog articles! ONE! Talk about disinformation. Too bad it's a pointless study. Everyone knows masks stop droplets. But do masks stop Covid at a community level... given the fact that one is applying a plague vector directly to one's respiratory tract for a virus that stays on surfaces for days? Sweden and Norway had no mask m…

You are going to have to go way back in the medical literature to find many peer reviewed studies on masks. For the same reason it might be hard to find recent studies proving that blood letting is not efficacious. It's basic physics and statistics. A germ of a certain size can only fit through a certain size whole. Masks of any type will reduce the number of particles and thus reduce your chances of contracting. Sam…

Like I just said it's clear that masks stop particles. That part is obvious.

What's not clear is if applying a plague vector directly on your face with a virus that remains active on surfaces for days is efficacious.

Is it efficacious at the community level?

It's basic epidemiology. You could be more pro-science and consider these things.