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Temporal: open-source microservices orchestration platform

temporal.io

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Re: Temporal: open-source microservices orchestration platform

#41

Post by mfateev »

jacques_chester wrote: post #39
mfateev wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point. But so far we didn't hear many complaints about this feature from the users. The main problem is in forgetting to version code that changed. But the system has protections against such cases. It doesn't end up in spaghetti code as old branches are proactively removed after they are not needed anymore. Temporal provides APIs that allow to count number of workflows using each version. I don't think it…

You might find the concept of Edit Lenses to be useful. A good writeup is: https://www.inkandswitch.com/cambria.html

I wish it were that simple :).

A workflow is not just externally stored data with a well-defined schema. It is the computation's whole state, including threads blocked on API calls and local variables on the stack. So it is not possible to define translations between different versions the way Edit Lenses do.

Re: Temporal: open-source microservices orchestration platform

#42

Post by jacques_chester »

mfateev wrote: post #41
jacques_chester wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might find the concept of Edit Lenses to be useful. A good writeup is: https://www.inkandswitch.com/cambria.html

I wish it were that simple :). A workflow is not just externally stored data with a well-defined schema. It is the computation's whole state, including threads blocked on API calls and local variables on the stack. So it is not possible to define translations between different versions the way Edit Lenses do.

So a process checkpoint? They make me anxious.

Re: Temporal: open-source microservices orchestration platform

#43

Post by mfateev »

jacques_chester wrote: post #42
mfateev wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it were that simple :). A workflow is not just externally stored data with a well-defined schema. It is the computation's whole state, including threads blocked on API calls and local variables on the stack. So it is not possible to define translations between different versions the way Edit Lenses do.

So a process checkpoint? They make me anxious.

Why not assuming that you can roll it back to any previous state any time later? Temporal supports such rollbacks.

Re: Temporal: open-source microservices orchestration platform

#44

Post by manca »

I am very excited to see a company built around Cadence! I am just trying to understand what would be the main differentiator between Cadence and Temporal, except providing a SAAS solution?

Do you plan to maintain both projects, or plan to deprecate Cadence in favor of Temporal?

Re: Temporal: open-source microservices orchestration platform

#45

Post by mfateev »

manca wrote: post #44

I am very excited to see a company built around Cadence! I am just trying to understand what would be the main differentiator between Cadence and Temporal, except providing a SAAS solution? Do you plan to maintain both projects, or plan to deprecate Cadence in favor of Temporal?

The short answer is that Temporal is a fork of Cadence by the original founders of the project. The Temporal fork also has a VC backed company behind it. The Temporal is still an open-source project under MIT License. We believe the success of the open source project is essential for the success of the company, so we are putting significant resources into its development.

We spent almost year working on various improvements before declaring the first production release. The most important technical difference is that Temporal uses gRPC/Protobuf when Cadence is TChannel/Thrift. One implication is that TChannel did not support any security and Temporal supports mTLS. We are currently working on a comprehensive security story.

Here is a stackoverflow post that has more details about this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/61157400/temporal-workfl....

Re: Temporal: open-source microservices orchestration platform

#46

Post by manca »

mfateev wrote: post #45
manca wrote: post #44

I am very excited to see a company built around Cadence! I am just trying to understand what would be the main differentiator between Cadence and Temporal, except providing a SAAS solution? Do you plan to maintain both projects, or plan to deprecate Cadence in favor of Temporal?

The short answer is that Temporal is a fork of Cadence by the original founders of the project. The Temporal fork also has a VC backed company behind it. The Temporal is still an open-source project under MIT License. We believe the success of the open source project is essential for the success of the company, so we are putting significant resources into its development. We spent almost year working on various impro…

Awesome! What's the plan for Cadence? Do you plan to maintain both projects moving forward or you'll start shifting community to Temporal and deprecate Cadence?

I ask because internally we just deployed our first Cadence cluster a few weeks ago -- it'd be good to know what to expect and what the founders of the project suggest to do now that Temporal is officially released to production?

Re: Temporal: open-source microservices orchestration platform

#47

Post by acjohnson55 »

mfateev wrote: post #23
lazydon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that you mention workflows and serverless together. In this regard, have you looked at things like AWS Step Functions and Azure Logic Apps? You get the best of both worlds - state machines with excellent workflow management tools along with the flexibility and cost effectiveness of AWS Lambda in the background. Talking of "Serverless Revolution", I think we are going to see more of such abstractions…

IMHO the best of both worlds is Azure Durable Functions.

I think I recall you also being a part of the creation of that at Microsoft! Do I have the right?

Re: Temporal: open-source microservices orchestration platform

#48

Post by rytemporal »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #47
mfateev wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO the best of both worlds is Azure Durable Functions.

I think I recall you also being a part of the creation of that at Microsoft! Do I have the right?

Our other co-founder Samar actually created Durable Task Framework which is the basis of Durable Functions. I actually do not think Max was involved in this project. :)

Re: Temporal: open-source microservices orchestration platform

#49

Post by rytemporal »

jeffnappi wrote: post #38

Temporal is a company/project to watch. The founders know the problem space with as much depth as might be possible. They were responsible for AWS Simple Workflow, then built Cadence Workflow at Uber to solve Uber's workflow/orchestration issues - and later formed Temporal and forked Cadence to build a company around. I'm excited for Maxim, Samar and team :)

We appreciate the support!

Re: Temporal: open-source microservices orchestration platform

#50

Post by rytemporal »

manca wrote: post #46
mfateev wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The short answer is that Temporal is a fork of Cadence by the original founders of the project. The Temporal fork also has a VC backed company behind it. The Temporal is still an open-source project under MIT License. We believe the success of the open source project is essential for the success of the company, so we are putting significant resources into its development. We spent almost year working on various impro…

Awesome! What's the plan for Cadence? Do you plan to maintain both projects moving forward or you'll start shifting community to Temporal and deprecate Cadence? I ask because internally we just deployed our first Cadence cluster a few weeks ago -- it'd be good to know what to expect and what the founders of the project suggest to do now that Temporal is officially released to production?

So the short answer is that we love Cadence but it is no longer our project. Uber team has full control and we are not part of Uber basically. Keep in mind Cadence is a project for Uber first and foremost. But Cadence and the team are super great.

The long answer is that we see Cadence as a great part of our lineage. We felt that our vision for the open-source of Temporal was much different than what Uber sees for the project.

Now that we have a production grade release, we are slowly phasing out Cadence support. We will still provide free support to any Cadence users who need help migrating to Temporal.

I can’t speak to your situation without knowing more. I will say if you would ever like a hosted version of this tech, Temporal is the way to go. I am happy to answer any specific questions too!

ryland@temporal.io

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