The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights • Hacker News Board

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#291

Post by nickthemagicman » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 6:48 PM UTC

jointpdf wrote: post #285

nickthemagicman wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is the worst possible faith argument but I'll bite and let you waste some of my time with your non scientific citations. Now here's how misguided you are: Literally from the first article you posted: (which was a fricking opinion piece!) “"""If you look at any one paper — it’s not a slam dunk. But, taken all together, I’m convinced that they are working,” says Grabowski."""" "It's not a slam dunk" Anecd…

The second link I posted was co-authored by the director of the CDC. The others are reviews of current evidence that are readable and reputable. There are abundant studies on this subject. Here is what the WHO actually has to say about masks ( https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2... ): > “ Masks are a key measure to suppress transmission and save lives. Masks reduce potential exposure risk fro…

My rant? The Swedish epidemiological team didn't think your ideas were worth addressing at ALL!

If there are abundant studies on the subject why can't you produce ONE actual SCIENTIFIC PAPER?

P.R. webpages, opinion pieces, anecdotal evidence from random "experts", are not science!

You would fail my high school science class with the weak citations you've produced so far.

Because you can't. Because you're wrong.

Yet you sit there in your smug arrogance patting yourself on the back for giving it to the 'dermb anti-merskers'..... All the while we have more deaths per capita than Sweden and Norway both who had no mask mandates and who haven't had significant numbers of corona deaths in months. Meanwhile 75% or more of Americans support mask usage and we're entering a third wave of Coronavirus.

Might be useful to re-evaluate who is spreading the disinformation about putting plague vectors directly onto their respiratory tracts and killing people.

Thalidomide was supported by a ton of health experts too until the flipper children started showing up. Oh and that oopsie Tuskegee study! Other than that though!

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#292

Post by nickthemagicman » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 6:49 PM UTC

starfallg wrote: post #275

nickthemagicman wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's 3 billion people in this world that believe there's an invisible man in the sky that grants you wishes if you pray hard enough. I want science and data to backup policy decisions and not policy based on the "vast majority" of fear driven mental idiots believing something. That's how you get crusades and genocides. In this 'demon haunted' world science is indeed a candle in the dark.

It funny you mentioned this because the "science and data" overwhelmingly supports wearing a mask to cut transmission, which is also a major factor in why a overwhelming majority of people support wearing one. https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083 https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-f... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/ https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4179…

Very telling that literally all of the links you posted are either opinion pieces or editorial articles, and not a single article is an actual scientific publication.

I think you're getting 'overwhelming support' by the media confused with overwhelming support by actual scientific data.

The last article literally has a giant red warning at the top "This version is not peer-reviewed" or the second and third to last articles have a giant red "Editorial" warning at the top. Or the fourth to last article that is called an "Online Report". A blog could be considered an "Online report". LOL

I was literally laughing as I went through these.

Do you seriously think this is what actual scientific publications are?

Is this view of what a scientific article is widespread?

This explains a lot to me about why America is being crushed from the inside out by ignorance.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#293

Post by watwut » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 7:03 PM UTC

mrkramer wrote: post #246

watwut wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany 1932 was massive mess. It was not rational place in a lot of ways. It was also quite violent place. Physics and art mecca of few Germany cities were outliers within Germany, not the norm.

"Germany 1932 was massive mess. It was not rational place in a lot of ways. It was also quite violent place." I know, there was hyperinflation in 1920s and there were violent conflicts and confrontations between right nationalists and left communists. I think huge negative influence was Soviet Union exporting communist revolutions in European countries which eventually escalated to civil war in Spain and almost a civ…

There were multiple political murders too. There were fistfights in parlament and screaming. But violence definitely was not just Soviet export. Communists were minority compared to right wing extremists - who started to operate right after WWI.

> But Hitler and his ideology were a product of First World War and not a product of unstable Germany or unstable Europe.

What does this mean? WWI itself was consequence of unstable Europe. Germany was heavily militarized culture even prior WWI. Their imperial ambitions were definitely pre existing.

Hitler tapped into nationalistic, racial and Darwinian trends that already existed.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#294

Post by legulere » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 7:03 PM UTC

neilwilson wrote: post #200

legulere wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Venezuela is a sovereign nation with its own currency. We live in a globalized world where those things do matter. The best you can achieve by isolationism is North Korea.

Venezuela has a peg to another currency doesn't it. And government bonds issued in denominations other than bolivar. What is the UK pegged to? What alternative denominations are UK bonds in? There is literally no mechanism by which UK sovereign bonds cannot be changed back into Sterling. None. So it can only matter in the minds of those people who haven't a clue how currencies actually work.

Maybe slow down a bit before claiming that someone does not have a clue. The Venezuelan bolivar is not really pegged to any currency otherwise its hyperinflation would not have been possible. That is also the reason why nobody would buy bonds in the Venezuelan bolivar.

Of course the UK is in a different situation than Venezuela, being a country with an advanced economy.

Still the rating will have an effect as a lot of institutional investors are bound to very stable bonds. So the interest rates will rise.

Of course the UK can use inflation of the sterling to get rid of its debt. That would however also reduce its ability to issue low yield debt in the future.

In the end the UK is bound to what rating agencies and the market thinks of it like basically any other country.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#295

Post by pelasaco » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

romanoderoma wrote: post #250

pelasaco wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hitler banned Jews from possessing guns in 1938. Russia passed gun control legislation in 1929 coinciding with the beginning of Stalins rule. Italy's current gun control laws date to the fascist period, notably the public safety act of 1931. Cuba's gun laws are classified as highly restrictive. How it looks in Brazil after the decree: "Getting permission to buy a gun in Brazil still requires a lengthy process — inclu…

> Italy's current gun control laws date to the fascist period, notably the public safety act of 1931. 9 years after Fascism raised to power and abolished democracy in Italy. BTW you are not reading it well, what the Royal Decree No. 773 of 1931 established was that production of arms had to be licensed by the regime and that armed military parade were abolished UNLESS EXPLICITLY AUTHORIZED Guess who gave the authoriz…

right, so again, no comparison with Brazil, where the Pandemic hasn't eroded the democracy. There the Senate rejected the decree from Bolsonaro:

https://www.france24.com/en/20190625-brazils-bolsonaro-revok...

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#296

Post by starfallg » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 7:26 PM UTC

nickthemagicman wrote: post #292

starfallg wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It funny you mentioned this because the "science and data" overwhelmingly supports wearing a mask to cut transmission, which is also a major factor in why a overwhelming majority of people support wearing one. https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083 https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-f... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/ https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4179…

Very telling that literally all of the links you posted are either opinion pieces or editorial articles, and not a single article is an actual scientific publication. I think you're getting 'overwhelming support' by the media confused with overwhelming support by actual scientific data. The last article literally has a giant red warning at the top "This version is not peer-reviewed" or the second and third to last ar…

Opinion pieces? The first link is a study that measured the amount of droplets that each mask type blocks using optical equipment.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#297

Post by inops » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

romanoderoma wrote: post #287

inops wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Nothing in your comment is "denial". The guy got progressively iller. He "felt rough" at one point, and then felt worse. He was commenting on his own state and his perception of it, not making some great statement of it being nothing. He self-isolated throughout during his illness, before going to hospital. This was all against the background of the government shutting down the country's economy in response…

The guy literally said "I was in denial" I don't know what more I can say... If you think it's not bad for you, you also think it's not bad for others But maybe Johnson says things Johnson doesn't agree with.

Thinking you wouldn't be badly affected (and by Johnson's demographic, statistically it was likely he wouldn't have been), doesn't mean you think it doesn't affect others badly.

I'm in my twenties and fit, and going by the vast majority of cases that means I'll have very mild symptoms. That doesn't prevent me being considerate how badly it affects others.

You're also completely ignoring the context that at that point the country had been locked down: you couldn't leave your house except to get supplies and 1 hour of exercise. Does that sound like the decision of a man that denied the gravity of Covid?

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#298

Post by nickthemagicman » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 7:50 PM UTC

starfallg wrote: post #296

nickthemagicman wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very telling that literally all of the links you posted are either opinion pieces or editorial articles, and not a single article is an actual scientific publication. I think you're getting 'overwhelming support' by the media confused with overwhelming support by actual scientific data. The last article literally has a giant red warning at the top "This version is not peer-reviewed" or the second and third to last ar…

Opinion pieces? The first link is a study that measured the amount of droplets that each mask type blocks using optical equipment.

You had one semi-legit study amongst all 10 or so links! The rest were editorial articles or blog articles!

ONE! Talk about disinformation.

Too bad it's a pointless study. Everyone knows masks stop droplets.

But do masks stop Covid at a community level... given the fact that one is applying a plague vector directly to one's respiratory tract for a virus that stays on surfaces for days?

Sweden and Norway had no mask mandate and they haven't had significant number of coronavirus deaths in months. Maybe 20 since July. And they both have less per capita deaths than America.

Meanwhile 93% of Americans believe in mask usage and we're entering a third wave of coronavirus in America.

I don't know. You can tell me if masks work or not.

Good thing health experts are never wrong. Oh wait except for that Thalidomide thing and the flipper children. Oh and little mistake called the Tuskagee study. Other than that though they have a great track record! Lets trust the health experts unquestioningly and demonize people who want their reccomendations to be held to a higher level of scientific accountability!

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#299

Post by colejohnson66 » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 7:57 PM UTC

treeman79 wrote: post #225

jskdvsksnb wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The protests have been very small, despite the media doing their best to promote them. If you look at someone like Doug Ford, the extremely conservative, pro-business premier of Ontario, he has consistently advocated for masking and lockdowns as needed. He was tight-fisted with funds for testing, and overly eager to reopen businesses before fall/winter when outdoor dining would be untenable. That set the stage for ou…

Had several boat parades involving many thousands of boats, crowds of tens of thousands. Media had a brief report that a boat flipped over. No other mention of the rally. Seeing daily rallies and parades Driving around now. Zero mention on local news channels. Drove threw 3 states. We saw one Biden bumper sticker. No signs. Thousands of Trump signs. Media is extremely biased in its reporting.

> Drove threw 3 states. We saw one Biden bumper sticker. No signs. Thousands of Trump signs.

Is it at all possible that those three states were “red” states?

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#300

Post by nafg » Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 8:01 PM UTC

nickthemagicman wrote: post #252

starfallg wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the vast majority of people agree that we should do something reasonable for the common good and you disagree loudly while flailing your arms about, then it doesn't make you a defender of liberty, it makes you an obnoxious moron.

There's 3 billion people in this world that believe there's an invisible man in the sky that grants you wishes if you pray hard enough. I want science and data to backup policy decisions and not policy based on the "vast majority" of fear driven mental idiots believing something. That's how you get crusades and genocides. In this 'demon haunted' world science is indeed a candle in the dark.

That is not what religious people believe.

And there has been far more genocide that is secular-based