Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

politico.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 352 posts

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#91

Post by 88840-8855 »

worldofmatthew wrote: post #57
88840-8855 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. But this would mean: follow the China approach. - close the market - limits or ban American products. there is no reason why Amazon or Google cannot be copied and made better. 2 main objectives i see there: - protectionism and ban of American stuff speaks against our "transatlanic"""friendship""" and our "common" values meme - we have a terrible fragmented market. chinese have a 1.4bn people population, Americ…

What would stop the US from taking revenge with targeted sanctions? The EU has caused this for themselves. It is nearly impossible to start a small tech company in the EU, due to the vaugeness of the GDPR (Yes, I know people will claim it helps privacy but people are not willing to pay for online content so it will be unprofitable in the EU). Not even going into the future plans of the EU to "regelate" tech that make…

Nothing would stop them and they would retaliate. This is nothing new though - there are import taxes on airplanes, cars, steel and many other products from Europe.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#94

Post by pydry »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #88
pydry wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe doesn't need to create these companies. If Europe used this money to create the infrastructure for smaller companies to work together horizontally and vertically to form similar offerings they could end up with something better, at lower cost. This is a model that worked extremely well in Japan in the latter half of the 20ths century, and was mostly responsible for its economic miracle: https://en.wikipedia.or…

TB approach with „national champions“ can work too and may work better in a situation where there’s competitive market with few dominant players with unlimited resources. Look at Russia: they have achieved very high digitalization of government and society on locally built infrastructure. There are some state actors involved, e.g. Rostech, but large private companies did the majority of work, quite often not being di…

I don't think I would ever point to Russian markets as an example of how well things can work.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#98

Post by wrnr »

pydry wrote: post #58
bsaul wrote: post #6

As a european, i still think those kind of measures are trying to cure the symptoms by throwing huge pile of cash, rather that fix the core issue : that the private sector in europe is currently unable to produce GAFA-sized companies in the IT sector. My intuition is that once again the money will be grabbed by existing big companies that proved unable to innovate, but are the best at capturing public fundings. EDIT…

Europe doesn't need to create these companies. If Europe used this money to create the infrastructure for smaller companies to work together horizontally and vertically to form similar offerings they could end up with something better, at lower cost. This is a model that worked extremely well in Japan in the latter half of the 20ths century, and was mostly responsible for its economic miracle: https://en.wikipedia.or…

This is already how a lot of IT companies in the EU function, someone makes the iOS app, someone the backend, someone the project management, someone the security audit, and someone does the logging of the different services that are analysed by yet another company. It leeds to a lot of backstabbing and over-billing, I don't think we should subsidise this.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#99

Post by adventured »

worldofmatthew wrote: post #57
88840-8855 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. But this would mean: follow the China approach. - close the market - limits or ban American products. there is no reason why Amazon or Google cannot be copied and made better. 2 main objectives i see there: - protectionism and ban of American stuff speaks against our "transatlanic"""friendship""" and our "common" values meme - we have a terrible fragmented market. chinese have a 1.4bn people population, Americ…

What would stop the US from taking revenge with targeted sanctions? The EU has caused this for themselves. It is nearly impossible to start a small tech company in the EU, due to the vaugeness of the GDPR (Yes, I know people will claim it helps privacy but people are not willing to pay for online content so it will be unprofitable in the EU). Not even going into the future plans of the EU to "regelate" tech that make…

> What would stop the US from taking revenge with targeted sanctions?

The US would of course immediately respond in kind. The EU's actions would essentially eliminate the WTO and any pretense that there is a system of functional global trade or globalism; it would amplify the notion that we've entered a new era of hyper nationalism.

The EU bet would be: the US benefits a lot more from its tech dominance in Europe, than the EU benefits from having the US tech companies in the EU. That's a correct bet.

The more serious problem is, the only proper and fair response is to ban all EU products across the board from the US market so as to match the scale of the economic limitation (given the US dominance in tech is so outsized). Just banning EU tech from the US wouldn't be nearly enough.

Since it would be declaring a new era of overt nationalism, the US should also then pull all troops and military gear from EU member nations, revoke all military alliances with EU members, void NATO, and tell Russia to have as much fun as it wants to with Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Scandinavia, Moldova, Romania and the Baltics. Declare that the US no longer has any interest in Europe's security, the US will not interfere; declare annexation season open. Russia will almost immediately begin taking territory from its neighbors (in all sorts of contrived ways). In net this will massively increase the cost of defense for all EU members, will weaken the EU as a value proposition (Russia will offer a security blanket if you join their side, which some will go for), and will severely burden their economies. This will de facto destroy the EU dream, gradually splitting Europe backward into West and East.

Unfortunately what would also happen next, is the US would perceive the EU as a hostile competing power. To the hawks in the Pentagon and elsewhere in the US system, that would put toppling weaker governments in Europe back on the table as a reasonable exercise (as in the immediate post WW2 decades), to attempt to install governments more favorable to the US. This would cause severe chaos and instability all over Europe and also new European wars inevitably.

Re: EU shoots for €10B ‘industrial cloud’ to rival US

#100

Post by ivan_gammel »

siscia wrote: post #81
ivan_gammel wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are comparing costs of bakery which made an apple pie with the price of apple. 60M budget included much more than just an app, which is basically a frontend to a sophisticated government operation. If you want to make a point about inefficiency of German corporations, find the right figures first. Upd: I previously wrote, that Italian app shares the source code with German one, which was probably not correct. In…

In my understanding the Italian app was developed from scratch, definitely no idea why you think that the two app share code. Can you share your source?

You are right, thank you! I have updated my comment.
Post reply on HN