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The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

economist.com

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Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#21

Post by goatinaboat »

m0zg wrote: post #18
roenxi wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been a consistent theme to responses to major crisis in US has faced in my lifetime - every time, after the crisis the situation is worse than it was before the crisis. Not because of the crisis, but because of the response. 9/11, the 2008 recession (QE is still with us) and now COVID. The scars from the first two really should have healed a long time ago. It'll be a pretty dire future if the COVID response…

QE for 2008 recession will pale in comparison with QE for the pandemic. Luckily for us everyone else that matters (that is, who's not New Zealand) is equally fucked, so it's not entirely a losing proposition, but for someone of moderate means and with an income/savings that do not track the stock market these are perilous times indeed. Whatever cash or cash equivalent savings they had are turning into a pumpkin withi…

QE for 2008 recession will pale in comparison with QE for the pandemic.

22% of all US dollars that exist were created in 2020. Expect some serious inflation to happen in the next few years.

But we are still nowhere near Weimar levels of money printing, so that’s something. Except in places like Zimbabwe and Venezuela of course but that was happening before COVID.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#23

Post by baryphonic »

xyzzyz wrote: post #13
econol0dge wrote: post #3

From the article, it sounds like our response to the pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights. The virus is not agentic, and what they describe are intentional acts by human beings.

Yes, the human beings at the top who wield unchecked tyrannical power.

I have a contrarian take. The ones at the top wield very little power, and those who are 2-3 layers beneath them wield small nuggets of tyrannical power that, in the aggregate, translate to real unchecked - really, unaccountable - tyranny, but of a sort of purposeless variety.

This isn't some crazy conjecture. The book "What Washington Gets Wrong" convinced me.[1] The same phenomenon happens across government, even in the national security, intel and law enforcement areas. In fact, it even happens in corporate America, where the top level execs are fairly well aligned with the interests of the owners, and most of the bad apples are found in middle management to a step or so below the C-suite.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/What-Washington-Gets-Wrong-Misconcept...

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#26

Post by m0zg »

goatinaboat wrote: post #21
m0zg wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

QE for 2008 recession will pale in comparison with QE for the pandemic. Luckily for us everyone else that matters (that is, who's not New Zealand) is equally fucked, so it's not entirely a losing proposition, but for someone of moderate means and with an income/savings that do not track the stock market these are perilous times indeed. Whatever cash or cash equivalent savings they had are turning into a pumpkin withi…

QE for 2008 recession will pale in comparison with QE for the pandemic. 22% of all US dollars that exist were created in 2020. Expect some serious inflation to happen in the next few years. But we are still nowhere near Weimar levels of money printing, so that’s something. Except in places like Zimbabwe and Venezuela of course but that was happening before COVID.

This did help to stave off (if not prevent) the total systemic collapse of the world economy though. So let's not lose the sight of that.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#27

Post by astrobe_ »

goatinaboat wrote: post #21
m0zg wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

QE for 2008 recession will pale in comparison with QE for the pandemic. Luckily for us everyone else that matters (that is, who's not New Zealand) is equally fucked, so it's not entirely a losing proposition, but for someone of moderate means and with an income/savings that do not track the stock market these are perilous times indeed. Whatever cash or cash equivalent savings they had are turning into a pumpkin withi…

QE for 2008 recession will pale in comparison with QE for the pandemic. 22% of all US dollars that exist were created in 2020. Expect some serious inflation to happen in the next few years. But we are still nowhere near Weimar levels of money printing, so that’s something. Except in places like Zimbabwe and Venezuela of course but that was happening before COVID.

I think this is quite telling that the economic aspects almost immediately pops up. I believe that over the decades we have shifted more and more from "people first" to "economy first", to the point that sometimes it feels like people exist only to serve economy.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#28

Post by m0zg »

astrobe_ wrote: post #27
goatinaboat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

QE for 2008 recession will pale in comparison with QE for the pandemic. 22% of all US dollars that exist were created in 2020. Expect some serious inflation to happen in the next few years. But we are still nowhere near Weimar levels of money printing, so that’s something. Except in places like Zimbabwe and Venezuela of course but that was happening before COVID.

I think this is quite telling that the economic aspects almost immediately pops up. I believe that over the decades we have shifted more and more from "people first" to "economy first", to the point that sometimes it feels like people exist only to serve economy.

People _are_ the economy. If you don't think economic collapse does not affect "people" I invite you to read about the Great Depression.

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#29

Post by [deleted] »

m0zg wrote: post #18
roenxi wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been a consistent theme to responses to major crisis in US has faced in my lifetime - every time, after the crisis the situation is worse than it was before the crisis. Not because of the crisis, but because of the response. 9/11, the 2008 recession (QE is still with us) and now COVID. The scars from the first two really should have healed a long time ago. It'll be a pretty dire future if the COVID response…

QE for 2008 recession will pale in comparison with QE for the pandemic. Luckily for us everyone else that matters (that is, who's not New Zealand) is equally fucked, so it's not entirely a losing proposition, but for someone of moderate means and with an income/savings that do not track the stock market these are perilous times indeed. Whatever cash or cash equivalent savings they had are turning into a pumpkin withi…

[deleted]

Re: The pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights

#30

Post by lozenge »

econol0dge wrote: post #3

From the article, it sounds like our response to the pandemic has eroded democracy and respect for human rights. The virus is not agentic, and what they describe are intentional acts by human beings.

New Zealand's lockdown was announced nine days before it had legal effect, a court case found that was illegal.

Every country has let these values fall in one way or another.

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