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The Problem of Free Speech in an Age of Disinformation

nytimes.com

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Re: The Problem of Free Speech in an Age of Disinformation

#251

Post by armatav »

ABCLAW wrote: post #237
throwaway13337 wrote: post #95

Society is misdiagnosing the issue here. It's not unchecked free speech. Instead, it's unchecked curation by media and social media companies with the goal of engagement. As long as media companies get the most benefit from people engaging with content, they will continue to promote information that is damaging to society. It may even be true information but when the goal is engagement, it's purpose will be to enrage…

>It's not unchecked free speech. Instead, it's unchecked curation by media and social media companies with the goal of engagement. Unchecked free speech has always been an issue, which is why even in America, where free speech occupies one of the highest rankings of competing social virtues by dint of history, there are still a litany of narrow carve outs. Do you lie to your business parters in the context of a trans…

No - it's "there should be no line at all". Even a minor concession is the beginning of a total defeat.

In all of those instances you listed there are circumstances above and beyond the contextual meaning of free-speech in the above posters reply.

Re: The Problem of Free Speech in an Age of Disinformation

#252

Post by tzs »

refurb wrote: post #243
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

News stories from satire sites routinely get shared across social media with little context and, very importantly, without anyone clicking on them to check out the source. It may seem absurd to "fact check" them, but it really isn't, particularly ones that aren't very well-known to a wide audience -- which essentially means "anything but the Onion and even they get quoted straight-faced on occasion".

If we start censoring everything people might misinterpret we might as well just throw in the towel at that point.

Pointing out that a satirical article is not actual news is censoring it?

Re: The Problem of Free Speech in an Age of Disinformation

#253

Post by d23 »

armatav wrote: post #251
ABCLAW wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not unchecked free speech. Instead, it's unchecked curation by media and social media companies with the goal of engagement. Unchecked free speech has always been an issue, which is why even in America, where free speech occupies one of the highest rankings of competing social virtues by dint of history, there are still a litany of narrow carve outs. Do you lie to your business parters in the context of a trans…

No - it's "there should be no line at all". Even a minor concession is the beginning of a total defeat. In all of those instances you listed there are circumstances above and beyond the contextual meaning of free-speech in the above posters reply.

Your first sentence is obviously ridiculous given the examples the poster gave. I don’t know what the second sentence even means.

Re: The Problem of Free Speech in an Age of Disinformation

#254

Post by CinchWrench »

pdonis wrote: post #154
throwaway13337 wrote: post #95

Society is misdiagnosing the issue here. It's not unchecked free speech. Instead, it's unchecked curation by media and social media companies with the goal of engagement. As long as media companies get the most benefit from people engaging with content, they will continue to promote information that is damaging to society. It may even be true information but when the goal is engagement, it's purpose will be to enrage…

> Companies that make their money selling ads Which includes...the New York Times. And all other media companies. > This business model should be illegal. It's already trivially unethical. By this criterion, pretty much all newspapers that have ever existed should be illegal. Also pretty much all TV channels. If this is a problem, it's been a problem since long before Facebook and Twitter.

You nailed this.

What all of these pearl-clutching arguments amount to is former gatekeepers kvetching about there no longer being a gate for them to keep.

The information dissemination landscape is evolving, and we are only being held back by those too cowardly to let go of their control and let us grow and ascend.

Re: The Problem of Free Speech in an Age of Disinformation

#255

Post by mynameishere »

betwixthewires wrote: post #109

"The age of disinformation" is the crucial fulcrum on which the entire premise rests. There is not more disinformation today than there was in days past. In fact, it is easier to check and see if something is true (not using self professed fact checkers and the priesthood of truth and fact, but by looking around and using your mental faculties) than it was when I was a teenager. How many of you are old enough to reme…

How many of you are old enough to remember bullshit like ... "you heard about the kid who's intestines got sucked out of his butthole in a swimming pool"?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/girl-injured-in-gruesome-pool-a...

You're right about it being easy to verify stuff on the internet nowadays, though. Some of the Nazis blamed Henry Ford for their beliefs. They would.

Re: The Problem of Free Speech in an Age of Disinformation

#256

Post by thayne »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #95

Society is misdiagnosing the issue here. It's not unchecked free speech. Instead, it's unchecked curation by media and social media companies with the goal of engagement. As long as media companies get the most benefit from people engaging with content, they will continue to promote information that is damaging to society. It may even be true information but when the goal is engagement, it's purpose will be to enrage…

I'm curious what kind of business model would incentivize providing accurate, balanced information over spectacle and divisiveness.

Re: The Problem of Free Speech in an Age of Disinformation

#257

Post by juniper_strong »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #81

I come from a country where a free speech was never really a thing, and I tell you, americans, this: you don't value it enough. Restrictions on free speech inevitably lead to some form of censorship, and any form of censorship inevitably leads to the population being subjected to some 'official' version of 'truth'. This 'truth', however, is carefully curated to coerce the population to act in a certain way. So when T…

Right on.

Re: The Problem of Free Speech in an Age of Disinformation

#258

Post by gonational »

If you don’t like free speech or any of the other protected rights in the US Constitution, you can always go to a country that doesn’t have such things.

Why wouldn’t you want to? It seems getting rid of our rights is to make things better, right? So, why not go and see how awesome it is in such places?

France is doing great, I hear.

Re: The Problem of Free Speech in an Age of Disinformation

#259

Post by BuyMyBitcoins »

thayne wrote: post #256
throwaway13337 wrote: post #95

Society is misdiagnosing the issue here. It's not unchecked free speech. Instead, it's unchecked curation by media and social media companies with the goal of engagement. As long as media companies get the most benefit from people engaging with content, they will continue to promote information that is damaging to society. It may even be true information but when the goal is engagement, it's purpose will be to enrage…

I'm curious what kind of business model would incentivize providing accurate, balanced information over spectacle and divisiveness.

It would depend on recommendation algorithms actively promoting that balanced content.

Re: The Problem of Free Speech in an Age of Disinformation

#260

Post by dimator »

thayne wrote: post #256
throwaway13337 wrote: post #95

Society is misdiagnosing the issue here. It's not unchecked free speech. Instead, it's unchecked curation by media and social media companies with the goal of engagement. As long as media companies get the most benefit from people engaging with content, they will continue to promote information that is damaging to society. It may even be true information but when the goal is engagement, it's purpose will be to enrage…

I'm curious what kind of business model would incentivize providing accurate, balanced information over spectacle and divisiveness.

None. That's the problem. We've reached a point where the very engine of humanity's growth, capitalism, has revealed a huge vulnerability in its design.
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