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Facebook and Twitter Cross a Line in Censorship

theintercept.com

41–50 of 68 posts

Re: Facebook and Twitter Cross a Line in Censorship

#41
post #24
post #4

This Biden story was unlikely to cost him the election. But censoring it is going to be prime fuel for the right leading into the election and is a much bigger story than what was censored. This was a stupendously naive move.

It's funny that I can't be sure what you mean by "unlikely to cost him the election". That can be taken two ways. Either nobody minds him taking foreign money, or he's already doomed and thus nothing can cost him the election.

I meant to imply a third option: that folks wouldn’t trust the story anyway, at least not enough for it to influence their vote. This isn’t like, say, the Clinton email issue, which was being pushed heavily even by the NYT. This would’ve just been another right wing “scoop” that didn’t do much until it got censored.

Re: Facebook and Twitter Cross a Line in Censorship

#42

I strongly disagree. This thread breaks down the ridiculous nature of the claim and makes clear why the spread of (likely purposeful) misinformation in the lead up to one of the most impactful elections in US history. https://twitter.com/dantoujours/status/1316844679783223297?s...

Silencing the story may also lead a bad election. How could you know? "Best cure for bad speech is more speech".

Re: Facebook and Twitter Cross a Line in Censorship

#43
post #9

The platforms screwed up by never generalizing. If they wanted to be neutral parties, they needed to aggressively API-ify each part of the social media stack and effectively become the AWS for social applications. This would have meant delegating UI, algorithms, moderation, fact-checking, authority, etc to the market and simply providing the primitives for executing on those elements. As it stands, they live in a hal…

The reason they're not doing that, of course, is that that's exactly where the money is not.

Re: Facebook and Twitter Cross a Line in Censorship

#44
>The company added that their policy “prohibits the use of our service to distribute content obtained without authorization” because, they said, they “don’t want to incentivize hacking by allowing Twitter to be used as distribution for possibly illegally obtained materials.”

>But that standard, if taken seriously and applied consistently, would result in the banning from the platform of huge amounts of the most important and consequential journalism.

i think this is the easiest way to attack the most recognizable problem, however i dont think its the root problem.

there is simply no such thing as capital T Truth. Period, full stop. the idea that we can moderate or fact check our way into more meaning is just nonsense.

vaccines cause autism (extremely rarely). government conspiracies happen. unexplainable things happen. science and scientists are wrong, a lot.

to say the emobidment of our human knowledge at this point will not appreciably change and that anything else needs to be moderated away is so utterly, mind bogglingly arrogant and ignorant it beggars belief.

the who and cdc have both flip flopped stances on the coronavirus, and doctors who were correct in the minority were censored. the key to eliminating misinformation is discussion and debate, not censorship.

Re: Facebook and Twitter Cross a Line in Censorship

#45
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying it's not accurate, but if you want to debunk a news publication, I think a more reliable source is needed than some guy on Twitter... "The claims in that news publication were totally fake and deserve to be censored -- here, check out this Twitter user who has the real truth!" In other words, when debunking an article as true/false, I think extra rigor needs to be put into the debunking -- you can't debunk…

The twitter user is making a rational argument about the claims in the tabloid article. The twitter users claims are demonstrably true. There is no trust involved in understanding the twitter users thesis. There are oodles of trust involved when you trust a tabloid.

I am deeply distrustful of the media, but if the claims in this Twitter thread are actually true, then this story sounds like a total farce. But if you're going to frame someone, why would you do it in such a batshit insane way? Bizarre.

If these claims are true, surely some journalist would have noticed the same things? Maybe they have and I completely missed the story?

Edit: after reading the post article, there are quite a number of things that aren't so easily explained away by the oddities pointed out in that Twitter thread.

If our self-proclaimed trustworthy legal and journalism institutions were less theatrics-based, the actual truth of these allegations could be uncovered without too much effort. But perhaps there's no budget remaining (in any governmental agency, or any journalism outlet) after the multi-year investigation into the alleged Trump/Russia collusion. Whatever the reason, I suspect that for some unknown reason, this issue will be added to the ever growing pile of "things that we know(!) are fake news, even though we don't actually know because we did not investigate them".

EDIT: Interesting (but not surprising) that this article is [flagged], further demonstrating the wide variety of ways in which the distribution of certain categories of ideas can be controlled, even without a central coordination authority. Ideas do very much seem to behave like living organisms, with human minds as their unwitting hosts.

“People don't have ideas. Ideas have people.”

― Carl Jung

Mind Control: How Parasites Manipulate Cognitive Functions in Their Insect Hosts

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.0057...

Neuro-parasitology is an emerging branch of science that deals with parasites that can control the nervous system of the host. It offers the possibility of discovering how one species (the parasite) modifies a particular neural network, and thus particular behaviors, of another species (the host). Such parasite–host interactions, developed over millions of years of evolution, provide unique tools by which one can determine how neuromodulation up-or-down regulates specific behaviors. In some of the most fascinating manipulations, the parasite taps into the host brain neuronal circuities to manipulate hosts cognitive functions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1988/10/30/a...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics

EDIT:

The Twitter thread:

"So just so I follow this story: Hunter Biden, who lives in Los Angeles, decides to fly 3000 miles across country, to drop off 3 MacBook Pros at a repair shop run by a blind guy who charges the insanely low price of $85 (because there aren't repair shops in LA). He drops them off, signs a contract for repair and then disappears."

Sounds fishy. Let's check Google:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden

Born Robert Hunter Biden

February 4, 1970 (age 50)

Wilmington, Delaware, U.S.

"Curiously" not mentioned in the Twitter thread (even though it was extremely specific about pointing out the distance between the shop and Hunter's hometown): Wilmington, Delaware

Re: Facebook and Twitter Cross a Line in Censorship

#46
post #33
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The emails have already been confirmed to be real, at least some of them. The technician spoke on record about getting the laptop from the owner who abandoned it, and by law became his. There are gaps in the story that need to be investigated, but who the heck are Facebook and Twitter to make that call minutes/hours after the story broke?? This is not some weird obscure conspiracy story. The other thing here is the d…

DKIM? Link to independent (non-tabloid) confirmation?

There you go - I hate to quote fox news but NYT and others refuse to investigate this matter: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-china-email-so...

More importantly - the Biden campaign HAS NOT said the emails are fake.

Re: Facebook and Twitter Cross a Line in Censorship

#47
The courts have ruled that @RealDonaldTrump's twitter feed constitutes official government communication. How does that square with Twitter having the right to restrict, block, limit distribution, or attach addendums to tweets?

Given that the situation with Twitter a mess right now, the only responsible thing that should be done right away is for the President to issue an executive order barring the use of Twitter for any official purpose. Remove all tweets and close all accounts. A third party should not be intermediating between the government and the public.

If microblogging is a value, then he should also issue an EO which directs the appropriate federal agencies to establish standards defining protocols, create baseline implementations, and regulations around use, free speech, and the like.

Re: Facebook and Twitter Cross a Line in Censorship

#48
post #46
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DKIM? Link to independent (non-tabloid) confirmation?

There you go - I hate to quote fox news but NYT and others refuse to investigate this matter: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-china-email-so... More importantly - the Biden campaign HAS NOT said the emails are fake.

Not sure if you watched the video at the top of that page but the word "allegedly" was emphasized in describing the emails provenance.

Where's the verification?

Re: Facebook and Twitter Cross a Line in Censorship

#49

>The company added that their policy “prohibits the use of our service to distribute content obtained without authorization” because, they said, they “don’t want to incentivize hacking by allowing Twitter to be used as distribution for possibly illegally obtained materials.” >But that standard, if taken seriously and applied consistently, would result in the banning from the platform of huge amounts of the most impor…

> “prohibits the use of our service to distribute content obtained without authorization”

If this is their policy, they're going to have to get rid of a very large number of reaction gifs. The first instance of any particular one might be able to make a fair use argument, but every reuse is straight up copyright violation, which is very specifically use without authorization.

Additionally, I wonder if security researchers are going to be able to tweet about the vulnerabilities they discover. Most software has EULAs that specifically exclude reverse engineering. For example, Apple's iOS 12 EULA says:

>You may not, and you agree not to or enable others to, copy (except as expressly permitted by this License), decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of, decrypt, modify, or create derivative works of the iOS Software or any services provided by the iOS Software or any part thereof (except as and only to the extent any foregoing restriction is prohibited by applicable law or by licensing terms governing use of open-source components that may be included with the iOS Software).

Re: Facebook and Twitter Cross a Line in Censorship

#50

>The company added that their policy “prohibits the use of our service to distribute content obtained without authorization” because, they said, they “don’t want to incentivize hacking by allowing Twitter to be used as distribution for possibly illegally obtained materials.” >But that standard, if taken seriously and applied consistently, would result in the banning from the platform of huge amounts of the most impor…

It's a little hypocritical that you've chosen the phrase "period, full stop", and go on to criticize arrogance. Regardless, The non-existence/unknowability of literal, absolute, objective truth isn't useful. When people say "facts/truth", they not only do not mean that - they, by definition, can not mean that. When people say "facts/truth", they mean it in the context of the tools society has. If we can point something out as "true" or "false" and back it up with anything approaching holistic and objective evidence, then it is fair to attempt to do so. The trap of cherry picking to construct one's own truth will always lurk, but it's ridiculous to simply not engage with the concept of lying because of it.
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