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How to Hide from a Drone

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Re: How to Hide from a Drone

#91

Post by e12e »

b112 wrote: post #25
ohazi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the 80s, 30+ years ago, license plates were discernible from orbit. This is absolutely false.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/12/top-s... It was also known by the likes of William Safire that our satellites could "read the license plates on the cars of Kremlin officials." -- If untrue, please provide a counter source to many of the like statements as cited above. (You may be right, but it seems that many believe you are wrong)

Weren't U2, blackbird and other spy planes highly classified? It could possibly be that airplane footage (by planes that at least in theory could be legally intercepted / shot down) was passed off as "magical" sattelite intelligence?

Re: How to Hide from a Drone

#92

Post by ashtonkem »

gruez wrote: post #75
ashtonkem wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand it’s clear that a guérilla campaign is fully capable of resisting a first class army for a long period of time; this has been clear since the 1970s. What people tend to ignore is that the defenders do this while sustaining much higher casualties . Oh, and civilian casualties are typically an order of magnitude higher because high explosives aren’t very discriminatory. On one hand, that’s an interesting di…

>What people tend to ignore is that the defenders do this while sustaining much higher casualties Is this supposed to be a good thing for the defender? The us has been there for more than a decade and the defenders weren't running out of combatants.

I mean, there’s no way to look at tens of thousands of deaths and declare it to be a good thing. I say it because usually in common discussion people forget that the defenders in this scenario hold out despite higher casualties, not due to the lack of them.

Re: How to Hide from a Drone

#93

Post by jjones2 »

0xdeadb00f wrote: post #81
motohagiography wrote: post #65

The idea that we all live as future fugitives now seems like something worth changing. If your plan is to hide, does it really matter how well? The best way to defeat drones is to engage in culture and policy making, and to vote. The next best way is to use RF to triangulate their C2 location and either jam it or destroy it. "Hide." Kids today, no valour.

I have no faith in what my vote can do in regards to things like this. Paying attention doesn't do much. If the government wants to pass something, especially in the name of national security, it will get passed.

And to top it off, Hillary literally put the idea on the table that it would be just fine to drone strike journalist Julian Assange: https://archive.vn/DrLRO

So no, zero faith for things like laws to keep the government in check.

Re: How to Hide from a Drone

#94

Post by crocodiletears »

uselesscynicism wrote: post #88
0xdeadb00f wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no faith in what my vote can do in regards to things like this. Paying attention doesn't do much. If the government wants to pass something, especially in the name of national security, it will get passed.

Then what? If you can't vote to get the change that you want, what's the alternative? Violent revolution and hoping that the new boss is better than the old boss? I'm so tired of this kind of useless cynicism. Voting matters, especially at the local level. You can get involved in your party at local levels, too. How do you think all these politicians get into the political class to begin with, in free societies? Or s…

It's not useless cynicism, it's a sober approach. Understanding that the influence of politicians is delimited by their knowledge, the as well as monied, and bureaucratic interests.

I vote in every election I can, national to local. But ultimately you have to understand that in most cases, unless you're willing to dedicate your life to political advocacy (an exhausting route filled with small corruptions, traps of necessity that threaten your principals, and unpleasant people) you're choosing to adjust the angle of the rudder within a certain margin, not the trajectory or shape of the ship.

Re: How to Hide from a Drone

#95

Post by missedthecue »

dylan604 wrote: post #72
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #5

For reference here is footage from an apache gun killing a civilian reporter in Baghdad in 2007: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AColla... So I'm fairly certain this is what most drone operators will see on the screen. This video is over 13 years old though, so current optics are probably much more advanced than what was deployed in iraq. Near-future drones can also probably use 5G networks to t…

This doesn't look like drone footage to me. From the flight pattern (left hand circle), this looks more like an AC-130 gun ship. Drones carry rockets/missiles, and this is clearly a large caliber machine gun being used.

It's an Apache helicopter

Re: How to Hide from a Drone

#96

Post by dylan604 »

missedthecue wrote: post #95
dylan604 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't look like drone footage to me. From the flight pattern (left hand circle), this looks more like an AC-130 gun ship. Drones carry rockets/missiles, and this is clearly a large caliber machine gun being used.

It's an Apache helicopter

That was something I thought as well, but I doubt Apaches fly that kind of pattern though. They wouldn't let a target get lost behind a wall while making lazy circles. Also, the sound of an Apache gun sounds like the sky is ripping open. Not 100% on anything other than it's not a drone.

Re: How to Hide from a Drone

#97

Post by _spduchamp »

motohagiography wrote: post #65

The idea that we all live as future fugitives now seems like something worth changing. If your plan is to hide, does it really matter how well? The best way to defeat drones is to engage in culture and policy making, and to vote. The next best way is to use RF to triangulate their C2 location and either jam it or destroy it. "Hide." Kids today, no valour.

#1 Pursue electoral reform to ensure you are democratically represented. Elections can't change policy for the long term without a proportionally representative democracy.

Re: How to Hide from a Drone

#98

Post by ohazi »

b112 wrote: post #26
b112 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/12/top-s... It was also known by the likes of William Safire that our satellites could "read the license plates on the cars of Kremlin officials." -- If untrue, please provide a counter source to many of the like statements as cited above. (You may be right, but it seems that many believe you are wrong)

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=nugbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=kFEE... Under 'twenty questions', second column, end of column, under highlights "Big Bird" satellite. Again, you may be right. However there are many claims that this capability existed in the 80s. Suggest you research some of the satellites of the time, including ones which worked on film, and jettisoned rolls of it for terrestrial pickup.

> Suggest you research some of the satellites of the time

Suggest you do the same.

Here's the "Big Bird" satellite you referred to: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KH-9_Hexagon

> The cameras could scan contiguous areas up to 120 degrees wide, and achieved a ground resolution better than 2 ft (0.61 m) during the later phase of the project.

The sources you cite are, to put it nicely, propaganda. The physics simply doesn't agree that this was even remotely possible at the time.

Another commenter correctly pointed out that these claims would violate the diffraction limit by more than an order of magnitude, and that's assuming zero atmospheric interference, which is absolutely not the case.

Why do you think film is relevant here? These satellites are not noise-limited like your phone vs. an SLR, they're diffraction limited. This is an optical resolution limit that has nothing to do with the photon capture medium or the size of the photographic plate. The only way to do better is to increase the effective area (of the mirror, not the plate) or to decrease the effective wavelength.

They were not doing interferometry with these satellites, and certainly not the multi-axis interferometry you'd need to be able to resolve centimeter-thick lines in text.

Re: How to Hide from a Drone

#99

Post by motohagiography »

hamiltonkibbe wrote: post #84
fake-name wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The next best way is to use RF to triangulate their C2 location and either jam it or destroy it. That doesn't do jack when the drone is autonomous.

If it's autonomous you can skip the triangulation step. The drone and C2 are co-located.

Agreed. Autonomous just means free range spare parts.

Re: How to Hide from a Drone

#100

Post by takinola »

jjones2 wrote: post #93
0xdeadb00f wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no faith in what my vote can do in regards to things like this. Paying attention doesn't do much. If the government wants to pass something, especially in the name of national security, it will get passed.

And to top it off, Hillary literally put the idea on the table that it would be just fine to drone strike journalist Julian Assange: https://archive.vn/DrLRO So no, zero faith for things like laws to keep the government in check.

I would take this claim with a giant grain of salt. Assange was in an European city not on a farm in a middle eastern country. Ethics aside, this would be very difficult to operationalize even if it was seriously considered.
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