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Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

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Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#131

Post by kandeel4411 »

ColanR wrote: post #82
kandeel4411 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Muslim, I can confirm we only do it because we reject idol worship and the visual depiction of any living being, particularly prophets. We dont believe in any power being present in statues. Just wanted to let you know :)

It doesn't justify the destruction of historical artifacts, though. :/

Certainly yes, but its not historic if it was done in their time is it? I mean Islam has been around for 1400 years, this could have been done ages ago when the church was relatively new - also I believe most of those churches were converted to mosques (Muslim prayer place) which would justify some re-configuration for their usage. This is taking into account that this was their land/property, anything else would be going out of line, exceptions could be made of course for how offensive something is.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#133

Post by Jon_Lowtek »

feralimal wrote: post #2

This is something I've noticed on a lot of older statues. Not just Egyptian ones. This is pretty far from the standard narrative, but I think something happened 300 years ago. A different group moved in, and destroyed the more beautiful creations of the older group. Where there were statues on churches, these were replaced with gargoyles. I think the nose destruction you raise is a part of that - its a simple way to…

300 years is so far off, you are basically implying a worldwide conspiracy

EDIT: i read through other comments by you and you seem to be dangerously deep down a rabid hole of believing society to be hocussed by descartes' demon, throwing around words like propaganda and indoctrination that imply evil intent and planning. There is philosophical insight in cartesian doubt, and that radical constructivism you seem to hold dear, but the path you walk is very dangerous, as it is beset by highwaymen that want to break peoples sanity and hook them on their ideology, cultism or concept of enemies. Please be careful.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#135

Post by valarauko »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #106
valarauko wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you tend to see in India is the deliberate desecration of carvings - smashing in faces and breaking hands. Hindu rulers tended not to do these kinds of specific acts. You could probably count on one hand the "Indic" kings documented to have specifically targeted temples or religious iconography. The most famous examples that come to mind immediately would be the razing of the temples of Pratihaspura, allegedly t…

> You could probably count on one hand the "Indic" kings documented to have specifically targeted temples or religious iconography. This is more of a statement about the quality of the historical record in India (which is abysmally low).

Not really. The rival Indic traditions were quick to note slip-ups and wrongdoings by their rivals. For example, the rivalry between the Vaishnavite & Shaivite traditions in South India is well documented. Rival temples and structures would be repurposed frequently, but you do not see the type of desecration mentioned in the earlier comment. Yet you also do have records of the expulsion and genocide of 5000 Jains from the city of Madurai by the Shaivites. The targetting of Buddhist structures and the Bo Tree by Shashanka is well documented by multiple sources. The targeting & execution of the Ajivikas by the young Ashoka is also suggested by multiple sources.

At the same time, these sort of atrocities were very much the exception, not the rule in the long history of Ancient India. I can only speculate that the eclectic nature of the population at large prevented any one group from gaining the upper hand for very long, tempering the ability to target vulnerable groups. Even most dynasties had the preferred religious tradition shifting across generations.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#136

Post by bsanr2 »

Grakel wrote: post #114
bsanr2 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I'm being concise. Blackness is a designation of political expediency. It's not a genetic distinction. HN commenters routinely confuse this point. Ergo, this is a poor topic for us to discuss. You seem to be hinting at something scandalous; please do be upfront.

Bro, I'm tenure track, I speak fluent nonsense, do your thing, it's all good.

Thank you for confirming just the kind of person I'm speaking too. I look forward to writing your Wikipedia article's "Controversy" section.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#137

Post by john_Galt888 »

treeman79 wrote: post #108
ColanR wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't justify the destruction of historical artifacts, though. :/

Working people up into a frenzy and giving them targets to assault is a time honored way to rise to power. Statues don’t fight back. Real trouble is when you run out of statues.

Very pointed comment. It shows these illiterate people of 700 AD who tried to apply the Quoran rules on idolatry and tried to destroy statues (surely they must have) were no different from the quasi illiterate idle but raging mobs of Portland and Seattle.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#138

Post by bsanr2 »

saagarjha wrote: post #83
bsanr2 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to stop having these discussions here. HN users are broadly unequipped to deal with the subject of the "blackness" of Ancient Egyptians. Immediately citing limited genetic studies (as conveyed by a popular newspaper) rather than attempting to understand and sustain reasoned discourse on the sociopolitical dynamics of race is a dead giveaway. Suffice it to say, the genetic evidence shows that Egyptians (and th…

Have you considered that showing up to a thread and saying everyone else is too stupid to understand whatever you’re trying to share, then being surprised that your comment goes over poorly, seems like the real manifestation of ignorance? In any case, don’t do this here. If you have something to say, be straightforward about it and don’t insult your readers.

I fail to see what's confusing, and the tone is appropriate, considering the parent.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#139

Post by bsanr2 »

monkeynotes wrote: post #89
bsanr2 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to stop having these discussions here. HN users are broadly unequipped to deal with the subject of the "blackness" of Ancient Egyptians. Immediately citing limited genetic studies (as conveyed by a popular newspaper) rather than attempting to understand and sustain reasoned discourse on the sociopolitical dynamics of race is a dead giveaway. Suffice it to say, the genetic evidence shows that Egyptians (and th…

I think you are getting downvoted because a) you are asking to shut down a subject that is interesting to people. Talking about stuff is how people get educated. If you have an opinion or something to add, state it. Shutting down a topic because you judge the audience is too narrow to understand it makes... b) you come across as a snotty elitist who has an axe to grind. I don't see how understanding how ancient peopl…

Thank you for taking the time to give your analysis. I disagree with much of it. I ask you to bear with me as I explain myself. The subject of race is inherently political, and, specifically with regards to Egyptians, mired in decades of bad faith. Much of early Egyptology was dedicated to "proving" that Ancient Egyptians weren't "black." This is, of course, impossible; "blackness" is not a objectively-defined designation. It's a contextually-driven decision by observers and the self.

So, again, the most interesting question becomes not of whether or not Egyptians were black - by the modern definition of blackness (itself predicated in part on notions of separating African populations), they weren't, nor where they white, or Middle Eastern, or Levantine. The most interesting question is why the assertion that they weren't black is so vociferous. That's the character of the parent and several of its replies, not clear-eyed curiosity. They represent a conclusion, not an investigation.

It's in this light - in observing this echo chamber - that I felt the need to protest, and I feel justified in doing so. Humor me and assume, for a moment, that "Egyptians were not black," being rooted in a pre-geneology, anthropology-nascent scientific understanding, is itself a political assertion. What does the rest of this discussion look like, then? How, in your default perspective, is it not political? Because of the genetic studies cited? What do those studies actually say, and what about the model you've built around them is actually an intellectual leap?

That's the conversation I want to have. Not, "Oh boy ain't my Negro Studies professor dumb?".

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#140

Post by iguy »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #105
iguy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the take-away is that in different eras statues were broken in different ways for different purposes. Various Egyptian groups broke each other's statues, which they fully understood, for instance breaking the left hand of gods understood to be giving things, and the right hand of those receiving things, to prevent them from performing their function. And often digging out the inscription of the name of the king…

> And often digging out the inscription of the name of the king depicted -- which implies they could read it Does it? Wouldn't the name be set off in a conspicuous cartouche?

I thought this was the claim of TFA being summarised.

They have examples with walls of text from which I can't guess anything, but whether those are representative of inscriptions on so-damaged statues I don't know.

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