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Excel warriors who save governments and companies from spreadsheet errors

wired.co.uk

111–120 of 193 posts

Re: Excel warriors who save governments and companies from spreadsheet errors

#111
post #85

Excel bashing is easy but, where's a truly comparable alternative? - Alteryx at $5000/year/user? - A database that requires specialized skill or going through a DBA for every little need? - Salesforce? It's hell to configure if you don't have the skill. - Sharepoint? Again. If you're a small business or nonprofit, you've gotta hire or train someone before this is a serious conversation. I would in no way suggest that…

To me it seems Python or Julia notebook stuff like ipython or jupyter could (and did in some circles) displace Excel in almost all cases. The self-sustained inertia to change is real though.

With jupyter, you get the problem that editting cells does not automatically make later cells get recalculated. That alone, in my opinion, is worse than any of excel's failings -- imagine a spreadsheet which could get out of sync like that?

Re: Excel warriors who save governments and companies from spreadsheet errors

#112

Give me a break. 2nd sentence of the article: "It had the number 40,335 in a random box, and payroll wasn’t clear why it was there." If you work with Excel with any regularity at all, it's immediately 100% clear that this is a Date issue. I can't emphasize enough how obvious and elementary this "mystery" is.

The article is written for a general audience that probably doesn’t use Excel regularly. It would be counter-productive to use an example the reader needs paragraphs of explanation to understand.

Re: Excel warriors who save governments and companies from spreadsheet errors

#113
post #2

Matt Parker's "When Spreadsheets Attack" video about EUSpRig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb2zkxHDfUE

Also related, his recent video about the UK government's loss of COVID data (featuring a fantastic parody ad for Spreadsheets™): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUp8pkoeMss

Re: Excel warriors who save governments and companies from spreadsheet errors

#114
post #108

Give me a break. 2nd sentence of the article: "It had the number 40,335 in a random box, and payroll wasn’t clear why it was there." If you work with Excel with any regularity at all, it's immediately 100% clear that this is a Date issue. I can't emphasize enough how obvious and elementary this "mystery" is.

I don’t use excel - could you explain what date this and why it’s obvious?

>I don’t use excel - could you explain what date this and why it’s obvious?

MS Excel internally represents dates as a floating point number from epoch of Jan 1 1900

So "40335" or "40335.0" is +40,335 days from that epoch -- which is June 10 2006.

An experienced Excel user often runs into "mysterious 5 digit numbers" from 3xxxx to 4xxxx and will instinctively think it's probably a date that's inadvertently formatted/interpreted as a number. By switching the formatting of that cell to "Date" (Excel right-click "Format cells..." choose Category "Date"), the mystery number becomes a readable mm/dd/yyyy.

Same idea as experienced programmers coming across a 10-digit number like "1602930678" in a JSON or XML data file and instinctively assume it's probably a UNIX timestamp rather than a phone number with area code (160).

Re: Excel warriors who save governments and companies from spreadsheet errors

#115
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alteryx was my first step into analytics and it helped me get 2 heads funded for my team. But yeah at some point I arrived to your same conclusion and moved my team to python, we never looked back. One thing people don’t realize with these UI tools is that there is no way to use a version control system and I nowadays I cannot think of doing any analytics (including basic BI) without git.

Why can't you version them? Do they all use binary formats?

Alteryx files are xml files but the point is change management is hard to do. You need to compare each single element in the UI to understand what was changed between versions. It's a lot like Excel in that regard.

Re: Excel warriors who save governments and companies from spreadsheet errors

#116

Excel bashing is easy but, where's a truly comparable alternative? - Alteryx at $5000/year/user? - A database that requires specialized skill or going through a DBA for every little need? - Salesforce? It's hell to configure if you don't have the skill. - Sharepoint? Again. If you're a small business or nonprofit, you've gotta hire or train someone before this is a serious conversation. I would in no way suggest that…

Excel is the proverbial hammer that makes everything look like a nail. It is very flexible, powerful and beginner-friendly. And while you can solve a lot of problems with it, some of those should be handled by other programs (or other people). The problem is that the average Excel user doesn't have the right knowledge to judge what the best solution is to their problem. And sometimes it only becomes clear after long…

"The right solution to their problem" being a developer, at least as far as developers are concerned. Hammers and nails...

Re: Excel warriors who save governments and companies from spreadsheet errors

#117
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't you version them? Do they all use binary formats?

Alteryx files are xml files but the point is change management is hard to do. You need to compare each single element in the UI to understand what was changed between versions. It's a lot like Excel in that regard.

I guess diff'ing 2 xml files isn't ideal to see what changed. Do you have a better solution in mind?

Re: Excel warriors who save governments and companies from spreadsheet errors

#118

Excel bashing is easy but, where's a truly comparable alternative? - Alteryx at $5000/year/user? - A database that requires specialized skill or going through a DBA for every little need? - Salesforce? It's hell to configure if you don't have the skill. - Sharepoint? Again. If you're a small business or nonprofit, you've gotta hire or train someone before this is a serious conversation. I would in no way suggest that…

Instead of only considering a consultant, the company should have a developer on staff to work on small tasks like this. The cost gradually decreases as they learn the business and don't need everything explained from scratch.

Not just a developer. A developer that's clued up in business needs, can communicate (listen, clarify, translate technical concepts), has a smattering in finance to promote cost, time and/or quality savings they make. And the company needs a succession plan should such a person not turn up.

Re: Excel warriors who save governments and companies from spreadsheet errors

#119

One thing I'm thankful for is my Excel skill. Why do I even have Excel skill? Because of the garbage reports and data that I was pulling out of databases. I spent YEARS exporting data-dumps and cleansing them in Excel to help customers whose lives were turned inside out because of garbage in databases. Not a negative word should be uttered about Excel until you can guarantee that databases and software are pristine a…

I agree the excel is great for cleansing or processing small/medium sized data sets. It's great for comparing two or more data sets too. The thing that makes it great for these things is visual editing, and the ease of setting up formulas. This also makes it dangerous in business critical processes because it allows too great a surface for mistakes.

There's also the issue that they're often set up as an ad hoc analysis only to become a process carried out on a schedule. This gets particularly bad when macros are involved - especially when they're password protected.

Re: Excel warriors who save governments and companies from spreadsheet errors

#120
Having consulted in large enterprises, the main reason spreadsheets exist: A knowledge worker needs some form of automation support to do the job.

Choices are:

(a) spend a day drafting a rough spreadsheet, then over the next months tinker with it making it a bit better, more efficient and add more relevant functionalities.

(b) put in a formal project request to IT. This will be put into the backlog, and most probably classified as non priority unless there is some lobbying from people with clout to 'get this done'. When accepted, usually months or even years later, it will be analyzed at length by a business analyst that is unfamiliar with the problems that need to be solved, handed over to a programmer (or worse, an external contract) that will implement something that will have 30 assumptions filling the holes in the analysis, be accepted by the analyst and then thrown over to the poor user that will have to figure out if something, anything relevant to the job can be done with it. The user can start asking for corrections or rewrites, but since most of the operation is CYA from start to finish has a high chance of being berated for 'wasting the companies resources' (after all, this project that could have been done in a day with a spreadsheet has now already cost the org 200k or more in the least, a significant amount of that went to the IT dept's internal platform rewrites that they are desperate to do but never get budget for from the business) and with high probability land the user on the 'difficult/nagging' people list of the IT dept.

Every few years the enterprise will launch an initiative to 'clean up all our processes', typically when a new key manager moves in with 'friendly' IT contractors that he was palls with at his previous place, and they'll start with an inventory of all the 'shadow IT' (spreadsheets, Access DB solutions, homebrew VB programs, some SaaS stuff ...) in order to purge and consolidate all onto the shiny new ERP/BPM/... platfrom that was sold to the CxO. The new platform a few dozen million dollars later will (if successful) deliver maybe 33% of the required functionality, and the users can either 'let the business fail to show the nobheads that it is an impossible system to run the business on' or, more likely, keep using their spreadsheets and other quick fix solutions to keep the business running despite.

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