Atlassian moving to cloud-only, will stop selling server licenses • Hacker News Board

Re: Atlassian moving to cloud-only, will stop selling server licenses

#191

Post by user5994461 » Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 10:24 AM UTC

jasonv wrote: post #46

x87678r wrote: post #8

Anyone got a good opensource Jira alternative I can install locally? Most alternatives are cloud as well.

Anyone still use Trac? [ https://trac.edgewall.org ] We were using it up until a while ago (edit: oh, did the math, 7 years ago)... could still totally get by with it. I keep my free Jira/Cloud account going, but when I look elsewhere, I don't really love the options either (Clubhouse, looking at you).

At the largest bank I worked with. Trac was the primary wiki that was in use for almost 15 years (largely abandoned for the last 5). Think 10 000 wiki pages and documents written by a thousand developers over the span of entire careers. Note that Trac is abandoned software, for example it cannot run on python 3, there's been issues filled on that for years and there's simply no effort to maintain it.

I decommissioned it last year (hint: there's a long and painful migration story here). Users and documents have migrated to Sphinx, that's been actively used for the past 10 years and was always supposed to replace trac (hint: there's a longer story on how to handle or not handle a migration here). It looks really good but the markup and editing tool is not really user friendly.

A few teams decided to move to the internal confluence instead, that's supposed to be the strategic solution in the company. Looks like they're up for another migration within 3 years.

Re: Atlassian moving to cloud-only, will stop selling server licenses

#192

Post by dreamcompiler » Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 10:33 AM UTC

This sounds like a huge business opportunity for some YC startup to invent a better on-prem Jira.

Re: Atlassian moving to cloud-only, will stop selling server licenses

#193

Post by variable11 » Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 10:37 AM UTC

I'll be glad when we no longer have to use your unresponsive buggy software.

Re: Atlassian moving to cloud-only, will stop selling server licenses

#194

Post by jeff_redradish » Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 10:39 AM UTC

chii wrote: post #127

jeff_redradish wrote: post #102

For any soon-to-be-ex Atlassian Server (self-hosted) customers, I've set up a Zulip server for discussing alternatives: https://chat.goodbyeserver.org/ It's an difficult position Atlassian are inflicting on tens of thousands of customers. Atlassian's self-hosted products are uniquely flexible, being built on a plugin architecture, and many orgs have indeed customized Jira extensively with plugins, notably ScriptRunne…

> open-source their discontinued Server product line little did you know, the source code for atlassian server products is already available for any paying customers. It's not FOSS, but if you need to run this yourself, and customize it, it's already possible. But of course, you will be responsible for keeping it updated (patching vulnerabilities from libraries etc).

I mean under an Open Source license, which the Atlassian Software License Agreement [1] is very far from being. It forbids you to even redistribute patches between licensees.

[1] https://www.atlassian.com/legal/software-license-agreement

Re: Atlassian moving to cloud-only, will stop selling server licenses

#195

Post by jeff_redradish » Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 10:46 AM UTC

thu2111 wrote: post #185

jeff_redradish wrote: post #102

For any soon-to-be-ex Atlassian Server (self-hosted) customers, I've set up a Zulip server for discussing alternatives: https://chat.goodbyeserver.org/ It's an difficult position Atlassian are inflicting on tens of thousands of customers. Atlassian's self-hosted products are uniquely flexible, being built on a plugin architecture, and many orgs have indeed customized Jira extensively with plugins, notably ScriptRunne…

I promoted it upthread (though I have no connection to JetBrains), but I'd note that YouTrack and their other team products have extensive Java and REST plugin APIs so they're also very customisable. Actually YouTrack lets you write workflow logic in JavaScript too.

I would like to like YouTrack, but I've always been put off by own custom database [1]. I like my data in relational databases. SQL is the ultimate read-write API. Jira (unintentionally) stands on the shoulders of giants in this regard.

[1] https://github.com/JetBrains/xodus

Re: Atlassian moving to cloud-only, will stop selling server licenses

#196

Post by zamp7less » Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 10:49 AM UTC

laurent92 wrote: post #138

zamp7less wrote: post #134

This title is misleading. Atlassian will continue to sell and support their Data Center lineup, which are all on-premise products, so they are not moving to “cloud-only” as this title suggests. Now, this announcement will probably affect SMBs the most, as most large organizations, government agencies, etc are most likely already running Data Center and have left Server behind since it really isn’t scalable. I would’v…

The title isn’t misleading if you consider: - Customer must start with cloud, - Data Center is the overweight offering, starts with thousands of users, grossly overpriced like GitHub Enterprise.

What do you mean by “Customer must start with cloud”? You do not need to purchase their Cloud licenses to run any of their Data Center apps. And I never said Data Center was a good fit for everyone. The notion that they will not have any on-premise options is just simply not true though.

Re: Atlassian moving to cloud-only, will stop selling server licenses

#197

Post by agustif » Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 10:55 AM UTC

Could an indie developer tackle this and try to offer a sane-replacement open source self-hosted jira alternative for small-medium orgs?

Or it needs to be a big guy forcefully, as in nobody got fired for hiring IBM

Re: Atlassian moving to cloud-only, will stop selling server licenses

#198

Post by niffydroid » Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 10:58 AM UTC

I do wonder what atlassian do some days with their cloud offerings. I find they tend to muck about with the UI more than fixing bugs or new features. I tend to find we have downtime with pipelines a lot as well.

Jira is ok, it can be slow. Confluence seems to be playing catch-up with notion.

If I were to start a startup, I'd probably avoid atlassian.

Re: Atlassian moving to cloud-only, will stop selling server licenses

#199

Post by murgindrag » Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 11:00 AM UTC

agustif wrote: post #197

Could an indie developer tackle this and try to offer a sane-replacement open source self-hosted jira alternative for small-medium orgs? Or it needs to be a big guy forcefully, as in nobody got fired for hiring IBM

Or it could be indie commercial. I work for a shop which, due to regulatory reasons, cannot have some things live premises.

I don't think it needs to be big guy, but it needs to be better than what else is out there. That's a high bar. There are plenty of good tools.

Re: Atlassian moving to cloud-only, will stop selling server licenses

#200

Post by vasco » Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 11:01 AM UTC

confluence_perf wrote: post #22

originalvichy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t share the same experiences with slowness (maybe we do something right on the instances we manage). I do however experience slowness in cloud. I assume they increase cloud resources in some kinds of steps that make them appear extremely sluggish.

Sorry to hear it's been a frustrating experience. I'm a PM for Confluence Cloud and we're always trying to make it better. Would you be willing to share more specifics, such as: - Pages with content X are the slowest - Trying to do A/B/C is annoyingly slow - etc ?

Surely you have metrics?