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Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

economist.com

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Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#91

Post by TylerE »

wintorez wrote: post #83
ip26 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F1 made 1,500 horsepower thirty five years ago. If such an unrestricted series existed today, we'd probably be looking at 3,000+ horsepower, 300-400mph speeds, and either a) autopilot features (for faster-than-human reactions) or b) absolutely ridiculous levels of fatalities.

If it was up to me, I would create a race where the only limits were: 1) Combustion or electric engines only, no jets or rocket boosters 2) Should fit within a box of certain height-width-depth 3) No human drivers, only remote or AI 4) No type of weapons, or ramming, etc. Only pure speed. I think that would have been an interesting race to watch.

The closest thing to that is probably hill climbing. Some of the unlimited cars at pikes peak are beyond insane... wings the size of a barn door

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#92

Post by petre »

jcims wrote: post #46
olivermarks wrote: post #9

Depends on the motorsport. Take drag racing. top fuel driver after reaction time is mostly along for the ride, depends on quality of engineering to win/lose. Alcohol FC is immensely complicated to drive, also pro stock which is pure driving skill. MotoGP motor cycle racing is highly skilled and is IMO far, far more exciting than Formula One which used to be the fastest/most expensive formula amongst multiple division…

My favorite expression of motorsport is the Isle of Man TT. Mostly because it’s a freak show. Here’s a serene introduction for the uninitiated: https://youtu.be/zbaO8mzByvw Once you’re done with that, search YouTube for “Isle of Man TT onboard” and prepare thyself.

There's also the Azores Rallye.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#93

Post by systemvoltage »

serf wrote: post #18
systemvoltage wrote: post #14

I mean this in the most respectful way: Can someone please explain the allure of watching F1 race on TV? I honestly sat down with a few friends and we watched Kimi Raikonnen but it was not a lot of action in terms of overtaking and drama - it was mostly inching forward and making time. I fully understand and appreciate the amount of skills that go into driving an F1 car, but what is in for the spectator?

>I mean this in the most respectful way: Can someone please explain the allure of watching F1 race on TV? I watch it because I drive/drove race cars. I love auto-racing. I love the noise, the personalities, and most importantly the cars. I can't answer your question, really. If there isn't any draw to watch it, you probably just don't enjoy it. No shame in that. I don't really understand why people watch football/bas…

Thanks for the take. I really enjoy Chess. I feel like I can do some calculations and see if I can guess what theyll play next. I like Rapid chess which is 15 mins per player which strikes a good balance between Blitz and classical time controls.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#94

Post by systemvoltage »

beachy wrote: post #22
girvo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watch the first few laps intently: there’s lots of overtaking, tactics and contact. I then tune out and leave it on in the background until the last few laps. Sort of like how I watch Cricket actually

Watching cricket is an art in itself. I once spent 5 days watching a test match at the basin reserve in Wellington, fueled with plenty of beer. From day 4 it was obvious the match was heading for a draw and so it did.

TIL Cricket lasts 5 days wtf.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#95

Post by SteveNuts »

wbl wrote: post #89
wintorez wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was up to me, I would create a race where the only limits were: 1) Combustion or electric engines only, no jets or rocket boosters 2) Should fit within a box of certain height-width-depth 3) No human drivers, only remote or AI 4) No type of weapons, or ramming, etc. Only pure speed. I think that would have been an interesting race to watch.

Too dangerous. You got to spend the weight on roll cages to protect the driver and need rules to ensure that that happens.

See rule 3

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#96

Post by leghifla »

vl wrote: post #87
mhh__ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole idea of a GOAT is just stupid. Lewis is very good, if he didn't move to Mercedes he'd be another 1 time WDC. The best drivers make it to the top, but that's it. Alonso only won 2 and he was just as good as Lewis and Schumacher (arguably better considering what he could do in cars of almost any quality, lewis had a bad car once his entire career)

I feel stupid arguing this, but if you watched F1 during Schumacher era it was obvious that Schumacher is really the best driver. While still at Benetton, he demonstrated his abilities, then with the top car he showed enormous consistency. Other drivers haven’t achieved it in the similar cars.

When Schumacher moved to Ferrari, Ferrari was not at all the best car, far from it. But the relentless work he did there improved the car far faster than the other team could. HE made the car better. It was an era with no (or few?) limitations to testing and Schumacher was known for testing a lot more than other drivers.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#98

Post by nip180 »

randlet wrote: post #49
olivermarks wrote: post #9

Depends on the motorsport. Take drag racing. top fuel driver after reaction time is mostly along for the ride, depends on quality of engineering to win/lose. Alcohol FC is immensely complicated to drive, also pro stock which is pure driving skill. MotoGP motor cycle racing is highly skilled and is IMO far, far more exciting than Formula One which used to be the fastest/most expensive formula amongst multiple division…

MotoGP obviously doesn't have the same level of tech as F1 but it is the apex of racing series IMO. Dorna has done a great job with the rules to keep the series competitive in recent years. It's amazing that there are 5 out of 6 manufacturers legitimately able to produce wins this year!

MotoGP is having an exciting season because the previously dominated rider has been out for most of this season. This highlights the skill of the rider compared to engineering for MotoGP.

There also seems to be a psychological thing happening, where riders are in general less consistent then previous seasons. There’s a lot of emotional toll happening to the riders.

Furthermore, lots of tech built in MotoGP sees itself trickle down consumer level motorcycles. There is a lot of competition going on in 400-1000cc sport/naked bikes for consumers leading to some really great bikes.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#99

Post by atmosx »

dboreham wrote: post #65

Apart from watching on TV and the movies, my only brush with this world was a 1/2 day spent interviewing at McLaren in 1990. It was very clear from every engineer I talked to that they had fairly low opinion of the drivers. One of the projects we discussed was a new telemetry system, its primary purpose to allow them to prove conclusively when the driver did something stupid. I didn't take the job if anyone was curio…

McLaren’s driver duo in 1990 were Ayrton Senna and Allen Prost.

Are you sure the engineers weren’t just petty little creatures trying to get some spotlight?

I can assure you that no engineer could win a race against either one. Additionally, Senna has proved that he do “well” with much inferior cars, there must be something going on there as well...

As someone who races every now and then for fun, I can assure you that there is skill involved and domain knowledge. A lot of domain knowledge.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#100

Post by atmosx »

vl wrote: post #87
mhh__ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole idea of a GOAT is just stupid. Lewis is very good, if he didn't move to Mercedes he'd be another 1 time WDC. The best drivers make it to the top, but that's it. Alonso only won 2 and he was just as good as Lewis and Schumacher (arguably better considering what he could do in cars of almost any quality, lewis had a bad car once his entire career)

I feel stupid arguing this, but if you watched F1 during Schumacher era it was obvious that Schumacher is really the best driver. While still at Benetton, he demonstrated his abilities, then with the top car he showed enormous consistency. Other drivers haven’t achieved it in the similar cars.

I would argue that Senna is the GOAT and it’s not even close.

But yeh these GOAT conversations better with beers and stakes and people yelling at each other in person!

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