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ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

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Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#181

Post by tpetry »

jancsika wrote: post #161
c-smile wrote: post #110

Sciter's author here. What would be strategies in case of Kickstarter campaign will fail? In principle I can publish it for free as it is now but I definitely don't want it to be one more of abandon-ware projects that are open sourcing as the end of life. In general OS development is significantly more costly (for the author) as closed source one - for many reasons. So OS development needs steady stream of funding. S…

> What would be strategies in case of Kickstarter campaign will fail? I think you chose the wrong goal here. I don't think you really want a one-time, lump sum donation to "unlock" your code under a FOSS license. I would think you want regular, recurring payments to keep you in the job of writing the code that pushes the project forward. Judging from the cron job of "Electron-so-fat" posts here on HN, there may be an…

Why not give the new feature to paying licencees immediately and to open source 12-24 months later. A company which is building a valuable product will not think twice whether to wait for 2 years and their rivals being faster or buying a commercial license. And everyone else just has to wait, they will get it for free one day, ignore their hate.

I have seen systems too where every new feature to an open source project had to be sponsored by big companies. If nobody is paying for it, it will never happen.

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#183

Post by elmo2you »

mwill wrote: post #12
gigel82 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it doesn't, they're using GitHub to store binary builds of this closed-source project.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves, the worst offender is companies that have a github logo on their page, you click through, and their only repos are binaries, or documentation. It's hard not to see it as intentionally misleading.

I fully agree with that. Even more, I'm not so sure that it is in accordance with Github's rules, and might (sometimes) even be in in direct violation of the license with which it is got published. Either way, it certainly feels abusive.

While I did read a lot of positive things about this particular project in several of the comments, one thing just rubs me the wrong way (and I can't shake it) .. it is the short time frame (left) until the kickstarter will run out, with the clearly stated intent to not open source if it doesn't make enough money in time. That just feels wrong on too many levels. I'm quite surprised actually, that I didn't see this pointing out by more people.

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#184

Post by donmcronald »

c-smile wrote: post #168
Rebelgecko wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is sciter so popular with antivirus companies?

For many reasons. Compact and manageable UI layer is the first. Full Sciter build for one platform/target is 50 seconds or less. Electron/Chromium builds are about tens of hours as I've been told. Yet this https://sciter.com/from-skeuomorph-to-flat-ui-evolution-of-o... is the same app that uses the same UI engine since 2007. UI maintenance all these years is the matter of updating CSS declarations. Yet you always kno…

What order are those in? The top left (first one) is the best UI IMO. Lol.

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#185

Post by resoluteteeth »

ptrott2017 wrote: post #14

Sciter is a very nice engine with a solid API/SDK and rock solid engineering behind it. For developers building efficient UI apps it can be a real alternative method to things like electron or as a lighter alternative to QT with QML script. However until now it was only available under commercial licence. Andrew Fedoniouk ( a.k.a. c-smile Sciter's original developer) has a kickstarter to fund open sourcing and suppor…

It seems like there's no way this kickstarter is going to reach it's target now unfortunately.

There must be tons of companies that could benefit from this, so it's too bad that there aren't more people pledging money for the kickstarter campaign.

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#186

Post by eitland »

pwdisswordfish4 wrote: post #160
artiscode wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the author wants to release Sciter under GPL, unless twice as many funds are raised, I fail to see the incentive for any company to fund this. GPL + commercial licensing model changes nothing for commercial product developers.

Well Mozilla spends over $50 million year-over-year on non-development costs that have generally proven to be completely ineffective: their marketing budget. So a one-time $100k cost is a fraction of a percent of what they already squander on at least one program they get next to no ROI from; pay the one-time cost for this, and the marketing they get out of being the one that made it happen comes along for free. And…

> Well Mozilla spends over $50 million year-over-year on non-development costs that have generally proven to be completely ineffective

Warning: opinions and unresearced statements ahead

Considering the contract they landed earlier this year many of us would be really happy to fail so successfully financially.

That said: Of course on the technical side they've given away much of their previously huge edge on extensibility, gained some performance (or so I hear, I never had issues with the old Firefox) and some security (again: from what I hear). Oh, and spent some major goodwill from the security community on stupid gimmicks.

Here's to hoping they can pull something off (for example by sponsoring this project or something, I don't know) to make themselves relevant again and stay relevant by again capturing the power user / enthusiast niche.

Because right now we are starving for better alternatives, there isn't exactly much to be enthusiastic about at the moment IMO: browsers just get more and more complex and enable more and more crazy applications.

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#188

Post by jlokier »

c-smile wrote: post #172
jlokier wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how the Unity/Unreal suggestion helps with open sourcing if that's a goal here. Those engines are closed source. For obtaining revenue and building a community their model works well. Just not an open source community. Unity is free for people and companies to use if their revenue is For any business whose revenue then grows to > $100k/year, the business can easily afford the relatively low license fee of…

Thanks, that's probably the most realistic financing schema in Sciter.JS regards. But as you said it is not Open Source, why btw? BTW: Sciter already works inside Unreal Engine pipeline as plugin: https://sciter.com/see-sciter-lite-unreal-engine-in-theaters...

> But as you said it is not Open Source, why btw?

The Unity and Unreal models aren't open source, so if you want open source as a feature, as well as revenue, you can't quite copy their models.

To get open source together with revenue, you'd need to use one of the open source business model approaches.

One of those models is "open core" where the core product is open source, and there are additional features for pay which aren't.

Another model is to use GPL or a similar copyleft license for free, and require a license fee for a more open license. Qt is a well known product that uses this (qt.io), and they also offer a revenue-based discount so that smaller businesses can pay less.

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#189

Post by webmaven »

c-smile wrote: post #168
Rebelgecko wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is sciter so popular with antivirus companies?

For many reasons. Compact and manageable UI layer is the first. Full Sciter build for one platform/target is 50 seconds or less. Electron/Chromium builds are about tens of hours as I've been told. Yet this https://sciter.com/from-skeuomorph-to-flat-ui-evolution-of-o... is the same app that uses the same UI engine since 2007. UI maintenance all these years is the matter of updating CSS declarations. Yet you always kno…

> For many reasons.

[snip reasons]

But why AV companies specifically?

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#190

Post by webmaven »

tpetry wrote: post #181
jancsika wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would be strategies in case of Kickstarter campaign will fail? I think you chose the wrong goal here. I don't think you really want a one-time, lump sum donation to "unlock" your code under a FOSS license. I would think you want regular, recurring payments to keep you in the job of writing the code that pushes the project forward. Judging from the cron job of "Electron-so-fat" posts here on HN, there may be an…

Why not give the new feature to paying licencees immediately and to open source 12-24 months later. A company which is building a valuable product will not think twice whether to wait for 2 years and their rivals being faster or buying a commercial license. And everyone else just has to wait, they will get it for free one day, ignore their hate. I have seen systems too where every new feature to an open source projec…

> Why not give the new feature to paying licencees immediately and to open source 12-24 months later.

Right. That's the GhostScript funding model.

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