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Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

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Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#41
post #18

I mean this in the most respectful way: Can someone please explain the allure of watching F1 race on TV? I honestly sat down with a few friends and we watched Kimi Raikonnen but it was not a lot of action in terms of overtaking and drama - it was mostly inching forward and making time. I fully understand and appreciate the amount of skills that go into driving an F1 car, but what is in for the spectator?

>I mean this in the most respectful way: Can someone please explain the allure of watching F1 race on TV? I watch it because I drive/drove race cars. I love auto-racing. I love the noise, the personalities, and most importantly the cars. I can't answer your question, really. If there isn't any draw to watch it, you probably just don't enjoy it. No shame in that. I don't really understand why people watch football/bas…

I was going to say the Tour de France is the prime example of sports most people who are not road cyclists find intolerable to watch. Maybe its just hard to grasp how powerful the aerodynamic forces are without having ridden in a high speed pace line, but lots of people watch car racing without driving 200 mph either.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#42

I mean this in the most respectful way: Can someone please explain the allure of watching F1 race on TV? I honestly sat down with a few friends and we watched Kimi Raikonnen but it was not a lot of action in terms of overtaking and drama - it was mostly inching forward and making time. I fully understand and appreciate the amount of skills that go into driving an F1 car, but what is in for the spectator?

I understand this sentiment as someone that never understood the allure of watching racing in general. However, I have recently been watching F1 with my father-in-law who is a huge F1 fan due to his own car and racing experience.

At first, it is just cars trying to be faster than the other which can be quite boring for 305km. But, when my father-in-law starts talking about the different strategies and choices being made, it puts a lot more color to what is happening. For instance, which tires to use (they have different types), when to do pit stops, how hard to push during different segments of the race, when to overtake, etc. Also, throw in some driver/team drama in the mix and you have some interesting meta game going on.

Similarly in basketball, it is just a bunch of people running up and down the court trying to get the ball in the hoop more than the other team. Kind of boring. However, the strategies, plays and player personalities/drama that get you to the end result make it more interesting. When to full court press, when should a foul be made, when to rotate players, etc.

It gets much more interesting once the rules/strategies are clear. In F1, I think it takes a little longer to get to that point because sometimes the action can be spread out over a longer period. It is interesting to see what choices are being made in different situations.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#43

If we go down this path we’ll watch autopilots racing soon. Not fun

I don't know, commentated matches between eg Stockfish and Alpha Zero can be fascinating. An analysis of SOTA self-driving technologies racing at a post-F1 level sounds pretty interesting.

As a child in the ancient days of the early 2000s, I would often setup botmatches consisting of 16 'players' in Quake 3 and spectate the resultant carnage. I wouldn't venture to say it was educational or intellectual in any sense, but it was still pretty fascinating - even as a ten year old - to observe what was essentially a bunch of fake people run around on my little P3. IIRC there were user made characters that had custom bot files with distinct 'personalities', so you could throw together different combinations of bots in different maps and come away with some very different encounters.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with NFL. I understand the sport is interesting, exciting, and has complex strategies. However, why do people care about which team wins? The players are traded freely among teams, and all teams are owned by the same business. So for example the San Francisco 49ers have very little to do with San Francisco, except for the name. If the San Francisco 49ers win, it has very little to do with San Francisco. The Econ…

The ape part of the human brain cares intensely about joining a tribe, any tribe that it can identify with and be part of, and then blindly being loyal to it, while cheering the downfall of all other tribes. If you let yourself go into the fiction of sports teams, and don't think about it too much, you can have very strong (and hopefully positive) emotional experiences.

Born to love a mediocre soccer team. They were always playing in the second or third tier when I was growing up, but just as I turned 18 they took the step up to the top tier. There were some years going up and down before they kind of stabilized in the top tiers seven won two cup finals (best days of my life), but it’s been downhill since then. I would say 10% positive emotions, 30% neutral and 60% negative emotions all in all. But what can you do? It’s not like you can change teams.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#45
post #18

I mean this in the most respectful way: Can someone please explain the allure of watching F1 race on TV? I honestly sat down with a few friends and we watched Kimi Raikonnen but it was not a lot of action in terms of overtaking and drama - it was mostly inching forward and making time. I fully understand and appreciate the amount of skills that go into driving an F1 car, but what is in for the spectator?

>I mean this in the most respectful way: Can someone please explain the allure of watching F1 race on TV? I watch it because I drive/drove race cars. I love auto-racing. I love the noise, the personalities, and most importantly the cars. I can't answer your question, really. If there isn't any draw to watch it, you probably just don't enjoy it. No shame in that. I don't really understand why people watch football/bas…

Even within motorsport, not everyone likes F1. For example, I find it rather boring compared to drag races and sprint cars. No doubt others will be the complete opposite.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#46

Depends on the motorsport. Take drag racing. top fuel driver after reaction time is mostly along for the ride, depends on quality of engineering to win/lose. Alcohol FC is immensely complicated to drive, also pro stock which is pure driving skill. MotoGP motor cycle racing is highly skilled and is IMO far, far more exciting than Formula One which used to be the fastest/most expensive formula amongst multiple division…

My favorite expression of motorsport is the Isle of Man TT. Mostly because it’s a freak show.

Here’s a serene introduction for the uninitiated: https://youtu.be/zbaO8mzByvw

Once you’re done with that, search YouTube for “Isle of Man TT onboard” and prepare thyself.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#47

I mean this in the most respectful way: Can someone please explain the allure of watching F1 race on TV? I honestly sat down with a few friends and we watched Kimi Raikonnen but it was not a lot of action in terms of overtaking and drama - it was mostly inching forward and making time. I fully understand and appreciate the amount of skills that go into driving an F1 car, but what is in for the spectator?

Have a look at F1 - Drive to survive on Netflix. I never considered myself to be “into” F1, and this series really opened my eyes to the sport and everything that goes into a race.

It provides a view that normal TV doesn’t give you, but will have you watch the regular TV broadcast of races with very different eyes.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#48

I mean this in the most respectful way: Can someone please explain the allure of watching F1 race on TV? I honestly sat down with a few friends and we watched Kimi Raikonnen but it was not a lot of action in terms of overtaking and drama - it was mostly inching forward and making time. I fully understand and appreciate the amount of skills that go into driving an F1 car, but what is in for the spectator?

It's obviously totally valid not to like it. I once went in person for a qualification and being on one spot on the track was not particularly great, I'm glad I experienced (for the real experience) but I prefer watching on tv where a director chooses where to go to show the best of the race every given moment.

Some reasons are more personal than others but here's my take (although I haven't been watching in the past 3 years):

1. Nostalgia, I used to watch F1 every race as a kid with my dad (we never had sports pay tv, and F1 was broadcasted free as opposed to soccer [I'm european]); we used to watch Moto GP too for that same reason and this are the only 2 motorsport I actually would still watch, I don't really have interest in any other, so this might be the most important factor.

2. races used to be more exciting, objectively: a combo of less technical/financial differences between teams, less safety rules, old school tracks (that seem to be better suited for overtakes for some reason) made it so that more drivers were able to compete for each specific position. Financial standing of a certain team is nowadays the number 1 predictor of success. Give today's mercedes to most drivers that can be called F1 drivers with a straight face and after getting to know the car they are going to do well, even compete with Hamilton. Same thing was probably true with Schumacher once he got to Ferrari (that was my nostalgia time, so it hurts to say): yes he was exceptional but 80% was the car (and arguably his ability to communicate what he/it needed to the engineers), 10% his instinct on setup/aerodynamic, 10% him being truly unique (at the time) on wet conditions.

3. pit stops, used to be more exciting (and dangerous with fuel refill) I suppose but I think it still brings a sparkle to the race, strategy and actual timing of the stops are a big moment that can make or break a driver race

4. one race is not a good measure for determining the overall excitement for the season: first of all there are better races and worse races; then overall there is some excitement from how much risk taking and calculation are involved in a race depending of current championship standings. Also, if you are so inclined there is drama in between races (usually not into that personally)

5. last, you said you followed Raikonnen: if you literally just watched 1 driver (not sure if it's possible, but I think so) by setting the camera only on his car, I'm sure you were doomed to boredom, the "race as a whole" is at least a bit fun on every race, but the race of a single driver? probably booooring: 2 hours and unless the driver somehow is fighting all the times (good car but classified last somehow?) there's going to be a lot of nothing going on.

Also races with mixed weather are very unpredictable and add a huge variable, making for usually awesome races in my opinion. Unfortunately they don't happen very often.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#49

Depends on the motorsport. Take drag racing. top fuel driver after reaction time is mostly along for the ride, depends on quality of engineering to win/lose. Alcohol FC is immensely complicated to drive, also pro stock which is pure driving skill. MotoGP motor cycle racing is highly skilled and is IMO far, far more exciting than Formula One which used to be the fastest/most expensive formula amongst multiple division…

MotoGP obviously doesn't have the same level of tech as F1 but it is the apex of racing series IMO. Dorna has done a great job with the rules to keep the series competitive in recent years. It's amazing that there are 5 out of 6 manufacturers legitimately able to produce wins this year!

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with NFL. I understand the sport is interesting, exciting, and has complex strategies. However, why do people care about which team wins? The players are traded freely among teams, and all teams are owned by the same business. So for example the San Francisco 49ers have very little to do with San Francisco, except for the name. If the San Francisco 49ers win, it has very little to do with San Francisco. The Econ…

> The players are traded freely among teams Yes, this happens more often than in the past, but there are still many players and staff that stay with an organization for an extended period of time (e.g. Tom Brady and Bill Belichick). > all teams are owned by the same business What do you mean? Each team has a different owner. > So for example the San Francisco 49ers have very little to do with San Francisco, except fo…

There is an American baseball team that started their life as Florida Marlins. The thinking was that they would establish this tribe mentality for all of Florida. After years of not great results in that regard they changed their name to the Miami Marlins for the same reason - to better establish a tribe. They haven’t moved locations, they are just re-targeting their brand
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