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Pianojacq, an easy way to learn to play the piano

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Pianojacq, an easy way to learn to play the piano

#141

Post by zodiac »

hsitz wrote: post #139
jacquesm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, absolutely, and we will add more import formats.

I don't really follow the idea that "midi is lossy" in the sense described. Because it uses note-on/note-off pairs? I don't see the problem there. Certainly the idea that a score somehow has more information in it than a midi recording is ridiculous. A score always requires interpretation. The midi is, in contrast, fully specified, very little room for interpretation. A midi recording contains pretty precise velocity…

> Certainly the idea that a score somehow has more information in it than a midi recording is ridiculous

A midi file is designed to contain different kinds of information than a score, so it can absolutely contain less information (of a certain kind) than a score.

Imagine a group of notes that are attacked very close together in time in a midi file - is it meant to be a chord played without arpeggiation? A chord arpeggiated as fast as possible? A chord arpeggiated to a specific tempo?

When a composer writes (say) a chord with an arpeggiation sign next to it, it specifies that the notes are to be played in a certain order, and quickly. There are multiple possible performances that comply with this "specification". MIDI cannot encode this information (the information being the set of acceptable performances).

Re: Pianojacq, an easy way to learn to play the piano

#142

Post by nuclearnice1 »

PianoGym wrote: post #128
gabereiser wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow... Way to try to steal the show. I'm now 100% certain I'll never try piano gym.

Right on! We'll be waiting if you change your mind!

Nice free resource and thank you for posting. So many great discoveries in this thread.

https://melodics.com/

https://github.com/apankrat/note-detector

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=12590.0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=k50uk8elR0M

http://pianobooster.sourceforge.net/

https://musescore.com/hub/piano

https://github.com/apankrat/note-detector

https://synthesiagame.com/

https://pianojacq.com/

Re: Pianojacq, an easy way to learn to play the piano

#143

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

jacquesm wrote: post #137
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do not take "key" into account. In terms of the note-related data contained within a MIDI file, it's just a series of noteOn and noteOff event pairs, with a note number between 0 and 127 for each event. There's nothing in a MIDI file that specifies the key/scale/mode. They can describe time signatures and tempo. And yes, they don't handle enharmonics because in MIDI, notes are known only by number, not by any na…

Yes, but MIDI does allow for the file to contain a KEY specification (as well as tempo, time signature and a bunch of other info). I know the scale/key/mode as such as not encoded in the note on/off signals but once you know what key you are in (and this can be determined in a variety of ways, including from the statistical properties of the note on/note off signals) the problem becomes a bit more tractable. Still, y…

The key signature meta-event is barely functional if you have a remotely expansive view of "music theory". Identifying a root note, major/minor and number of sharps OR flats doesn't really pin down a large number of actual scales.

For your purposes, it may be enough, but in more general terms, it's woefully underspecified.

A better way for MIDI to have done this would have been to use a "standard" scale numbering system combined with a tonicity count. An example or two is given here:

https://ianring.com/musictheory/scales/

I appreciate that your current project doesn't need this, but if someone wanted to somehow create a MIDI file that included the information "this uses Locrian with a flat second", the current SMF spec is inadequate.

Re: Pianojacq, an easy way to learn to play the piano

#144

Post by d883kd8 »

murbard2 wrote: post #6

It's funny, I've had almost the same experience: decided to start playing again during Covid, and wanted to use the midi port to gamify things a bit. I've been using Synthesia[1] on an iPad, which also lets you take an arbitrary MIDI file and practice it. On the off-chance that this will inspire the article's author for their development, or simply for the curious, this has been my experience with it: The primary mod…

> you're playing at a given pace, miss, stop and repeat a bar, the app should detect that automatically instead of just carrying on expecting you to keep playing.

I'm a piano noob but wouldn't you want to practice catching back up with the beat if you ever intend to perform?

Re: Pianojacq, an easy way to learn to play the piano

#145

Post by eps »

halostatue wrote: post #134
jacquesm wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it isn't doing dump UA filtering, it tests whether the WebMIDI interface works and if it does then it proceeds to work. So that must be something else. You can check the code if you don't believe me, it's plain JS.

It’s worth noting that I don’t use Firefox by default, but Safari, and the messaging only talks about Firefox. I thought I’d read that WebMIDI was declined to be implemented by Apple because of security issues (including the ability for random webpages to send firmware updates to connected MIDI peripherals), and going back about four months I found an article here on HN ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23676109…

It would make a lot of sense for a browser team to implement just the input part of the API and leave the firmware flashing part out. Or have it implemented but disabled by default, just like the access to the microphone / camera is.

Re: Pianojacq, an easy way to learn to play the piano

#146

Post by bromley »

jacquesm wrote: post #117
bromley wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good points! The beauty of a piece doesn't depend on its technical difficulty. Back when I used to play classical music more I loved playing a few of Chopin's Nocturnes repeatedly - they were about the right level for me so it was fun, and I could play them pretty well, I think. But I also spent a lot of time learning a few harder pieces (like Fantaisie Impromptu), and I remember getting frustrated that it took me ag…

So, you are a much better player than I will likely ever be. For me what mattered is that the software would guide me to improve on a piece as fast as possible. To do this it measures your performance very precisely and then judges where you are still weak, and then it starts to bring you up by focusing on the weakest parts first until they are no longer the weakest parts. Like that you improve quite rapidly. Give it…

It sounds great to me - sight reading is difficult, and frustratingly hard work too, so assistance in mastering that skill is welcome. I am without MIDI keyboard at present as I play an acoustic upright, but I will look out for an opportunity to give it a proper go.

And I might as well put in a feature idea (which I suspect would be rather tricky to implement but here goes anyway!): it would be awesome if it could take input from a mic and figure out the notes from that, so it could work with acoustic instruments too :)

Re: Pianojacq, an easy way to learn to play the piano

#147

Post by gbuk2013 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #38

This will not teach you to play piano. It will teach you how to play beginner piano badly, and then will create intense confusion if you try to learn harder pieces because you will not have learned basic finger techniques - which include counter-intuitive finger-over/under moves and unexpected hand position changes that anticipate what you need to play next. Piano sheet music includes these finger position hints. Unf…

Agreed. It’s fine if it’s just a game to get someone interested in the idea of playing the piano but you need to switch to proper instruction soon especially if the person starts playing regularly, as incorrect posture and hand position can cause injury with enough practice. Even if it doesn’t come to that, undoing learned bad muscle memory takes a lot of time and effort.

Re: Pianojacq, an easy way to learn to play the piano

#148

Post by bromley »

sudosteph wrote: post #138
bromley wrote: post #75

I can imagine this being really useful for improving sight-reading. However, for me what made piano a whole lot more fun was ditching the sheet music and opting to learn about chords, all the different ways to voice them, and the various scales that fit well on top of them. I started taking lessons with a pro jazz pianist (instead of a more typical classically-focused piano teacher), I gave up on sheet music altogeth…

I'm in a similar boat, and agree completely that it's super fun to learn this way. Coming from playing guitar, I was already used to starting from chords and listening for the rest, so it wasn't a big change. I'm a big believer in proper timing and solid rhythms being more important than notes, and learning by ear makes those aspects more intuitive, in my experience at least. One thing I did find was the very helpful…

I'm lucky that I was taught how to read music as a kid... I'm still rubbish at it, it's slow and painful for anything vaguely complex, but at least I can do it badly when I put mind to it.

I find complex rhythms particularly hard to read. Figuring out timing from a sheet without hearing it is like pulling teeth :D That said, listening to a recording of a great pianist and trying to work out exactly what they are doing can also be very difficult and frustrating when there are chords and complex patterns in two hands, so a good transcription can help a lot. I have a book of Bill Evans transcriptions that I would definitely do more with if I were better at reading music, or had software assistance!

Re: Pianojacq, an easy way to learn to play the piano

#149

Post by khazhoux »

jacquesm wrote: post #123
khazhoux wrote: post #101

The sadness of my piano life is not my fingers but my dumb brain . No matter how intensely I practice and memorize a piece, if I step away from it for a week I'll forget 30% of it. Curiously, my audio memory is very strong. I can hear music in my head clearly and in detail, even songs and pieces I haven't heard in years. This does not translate to "finger-memory".

I'm going to guess here and say that you are practicing a very limited repertoire, rather than to learn to play the instrument, in which case you are memorizing movements instead of music. Is that correct?

A fine guess but actually I cycle through what I think is a pretty big range. E.g., several Denes Agay classical+romantic compilations, the standard basic Bach + Beethoven, simple Chopin, John Field, Philip Glass (repetitive patterns help), etc.

Another frustrating thing is it's not just long-term finger memory that kills me, my real-time memory bus is slow when learning a piece -- the transfer of "what notes comes next" down to my fingers, just very slow and error-prone. I've tried a mental exercise where I try to only think about what to play "next" and just let what I'm playing "now" take care of itself. It kind of works and feels very different. Basically, to stay 2 beats ahead of the music at all times.

Ugh, but it's still a struggle. My finger dexterity is fine. My musical knowledge is actually pretty advanced and I can play expressively and convincingly -- but only when I can remember the damn piece. My memory is like a balloon that won't stay inflated.

https://www.amazon.com/Classics-Moderns-Intermediate-Grade-M...

Re: Pianojacq, an easy way to learn to play the piano

#150

Post by khazhoux »

quacked wrote: post #106
khazhoux wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slowly and deliberately, focusing on the parts that elude me (i.e., I'll skip the intro and other sections that are 100% solid in muscle memory). Paying attention to fingerings. I'll usually focus on 1-2 pieces at any given time. But I do go through spurts, where I practice every day but then for whatever reason step away from days or 1-2 weeks, which might be killing the neuron connections. I also round-robin my nig…

It definitely isn't helping, haha. I also play piano, guitar, and compose, and I used to struggle with memorizing, but I've been reading a lot of piano practicing theory and have drastically upgraded my finger memory, mostly by using these resources: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=12590.0 (look for Bernhard's post) http://www.pianopractice.org/ Loosely, stop using sheet music except when you're initi…

Thanks for the links!

It'd be amazing if it's not a memory problem (at least, not any more so than for most other people who learn piano) but just have to learn a new way of connecting them neurons.

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