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AWS forked my project and launched it as its own service

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Re: AWS forked my project and launched it as its own service

#381
post #139

Situations like this make me wonder why no one has created an open source license with a clause excluding multi billion dollar companies. If your company makes more than, say, $50 billion in revenue per year or something crazy like that, then you need to pay for a license. Everyone else can use the free license. Amazon in particular is well known to be aggressively anti-competitive, as we saw with the Diapers.com fia…

That creates problems for anyone who ever wants to sell their business to or sell services to any larger company. Which covers a lot of smaller companies. The license would trigger all sorts of legal red flags during due diligence for either case. And not just with the companies it's supposed to cover but any large company (ie: what if they one day trigger the clause, how well defined is the clause, what if they are…

> That creates problems for anyone who ever wants to sell their business to or sell services to any larger company

We ran into that, sort of, although the only one it ultimately affected was the author of the free software that we wanted to use. We were a small company doing development for a major Japanese software distributor. He wanted a virtual CD product that would make images of your CD-ROMs and let you use those images. We were using zLib to compress the images, but he said it was too slow. zLib has settings to sacrifice some compression to gain speed, but they would not gain enough speed while maintaining the minimum amount of compression he wanted.

I found a zLib compatible library that some grad student at a nearby major university had written in assembly for speed. It was very good, handily beating zLib, and he even used the same assembler we used (Watcom). The library was GPL, which was not acceptable to the distributor we were writing for, so I contacted him about a different license.

We agreed on some reasonable price to use his library in that product, and some reasonable larger price for a license to use it in all our future products. But then he started worrying--our products were for Windows. What if we caught Microsoft's attention and they bought us, and his code ended up available for all of Microsoft to use.

He wanted to negotiate a license that would cover all of the kind of thing to make sure his code could not end up at Microsoft or some other big company. Negotiating that would require our CEO's involvement, and probably bringing in outside lawyers. The CEO did not have the time for that nor any interest in it, and told me to figure something else out.

I did. I went back to zLib, and I added a slider to our UI which went from 0 to 100, labeled something like "Faster ripping" on the 0 end and "Smaller Images" on the 100 end. If the slider was set to N when ripping an image, I used zLib at maximum compression setting on N out of every 100 sectors ripped and stored 100-N out of every 100 sectors ripped uncompressed. The distributor was delighted with this. (I have never been able to decide if I should be proud of this solution or deeply shamed by it).

25 years later, and nothing from then ended up at Microsoft or anywhere else, and that grad student lost out on several thousand easy dollars that I'm sure would have been very nice and useful for him to have.

Re: AWS forked my project and launched it as its own service

#383
If Amazon employees started tipping 0% at restaurants in Seattle, they would be legally correct. But that would certainly impact the way restaurants needed to operate.

Sometimes communities get built up on a shared system that involves a certain amount of shame, embarrassment and feelings of communal good and following norms in order to continue.

Open source software seems to be that type of community. Sure, you can be a freerider and tip 0%, but at a certain point others in the community may glare at you with a "really?" face and of course restaurants will eventually just raise their prices.

Re: AWS forked my project and launched it as its own service

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, this conversation is not about the bare legal minimum. no one is disputing they have acted legally.

> no one is disputing they have acted illegally Probably a typo. But I think you mean “no one is disputing they have acted legally”.

i meant to say something like "the dispute is not about the legality of their actions", but i missed it :)

Re: AWS forked my project and launched it as its own service

#385
post #331
post #297

I run the open source strategy and marketing team at AWS. As I told Tim privately and publicly ( https://twitter.com/mjasay/status/1317084448119169024 ), I hadn't been aware of this but am talking with the relevant product team to see how we can improve in his regard. AWS uses a lot of open source, and we contribute a lot, both in terms of code (first-party projects like Firecracker and Bottlerocket, but also third-p…

OP here. Matt and I are chatting about this. We will work it out. As per my tweet, it's not about the letter of the licensing, it's about the spirit.

Not quite the same behavior, but BigCo's free-riding on FOSS is nothing new.

"At Serge’s trial Kevin Marino, his lawyer, flashed two pages of computer code: the original, with its open-source license on top, and a replica, with the open-source license stripped off and replaced by the Goldman Sachs license." [1]

[1] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2013/09/michael-lewis-goldma...

Re: AWS forked my project and launched it as its own service

#386

I really wish, that when COs like Amazon decided to productize a thing they either offered the core developer(s) enough $ to work on it full time (if they wanted) or a job to do that with a guarantee that as long as it was a product, and they wanted to work on it, they'd be allowed to continue. Problem with offering job is the likelyhood of getting redirected to some other unrelated work. instead of forking they coul…

It seems like you're arguing that people should get both the good will of having an open source license and the profits of a closed source license. Which comes across as disingenuous.

>> I really wish, that when COs like Amazon decided to productize a thing they either offered the core developer(s) enough $ to work on it full time (if they wanted) or a job to do that with a guarantee that as long as it was a product, and they wanted to work on it, they'd be allowed to continue.

> It seems like you're arguing that people should get both the good will of having an open source license and the profits of a closed source license. Which comes across as disingenuous.

It isn't. Linus Torvalds and all kinds of other people are paid to work on the Linux kernel, sort of like how the op suggests, and if that hadn't happened Linux would probably be a shadow of what it is now.

The alternative is to have some guy slave away for another's profit, and eventually burn out (which happens to tons of open source developers).

Re: AWS forked my project and launched it as its own service

#387
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well ... they tell you that not because they're bending over backwards to give postgres credit. They're doing it to tell you that the barrier of entry to this database is nearly 0 if you are already using Postgres.

You haven’t watch the reInvent talks have you? But if you try to use the same schema design from a standard Postgres database and use the same query patterns, you will be sorely disappointed. Redshift uses a columnar store and is an OLAP database as opposed to Postgres which is a traditional database.

You can implement a columnar store in Postgres. (Of course there's more to Redshift than that)

https://github.com/citusdata/cstore_fdw

Re: AWS forked my project and launched it as its own service

#388

Could everyone take a moment here and reflect on their hostile attitude towards an open source author who just wants to be treated fairly (in a moral sense)? My guess is that none of the people who are lecturing and gloating have ever written anything substantial. Shame on you.

Not hostile.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of embracing "openness" and "free software" that anyone could use freely, then getting mad when someone does use it.

Also it's funny to see the FOSS crowd rediscover the need for intellectual property, having denounced it when it was applied in the opposite direction.

Re: AWS forked my project and launched it as its own service

#389

I really wish, that when COs like Amazon decided to productize a thing they either offered the core developer(s) enough $ to work on it full time (if they wanted) or a job to do that with a guarantee that as long as it was a product, and they wanted to work on it, they'd be allowed to continue. Problem with offering job is the likelyhood of getting redirected to some other unrelated work. instead of forking they coul…

This. It's not like amazon can't afford to support financially the open source projects they coopt
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