ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable • Hacker News Board

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#111

Post by untog » Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 1:45 PM UTC

NetOpWibby wrote: post #16

ptrott2017 wrote: post #14

Sciter is a very nice engine with a solid API/SDK and rock solid engineering behind it. For developers building efficient UI apps it can be a real alternative method to things like electron or as a lighter alternative to QT with QML script. However until now it was only available under commercial licence. Andrew Fedoniouk ( a.k.a. c-smile Sciter's original developer) has a kickstarter to fund open sourcing and suppor…

55 hours to go and not even a third of the goal completed. I’m an optimistic guy but I don’t see this happening. EDIT: I wouldn’t mind being wrong.

I'm absolutely the target market for this (I've even downloaded Sciter and tried it out before now)... and I had no idea this Kickstarter had been made.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I wouldn't assume there's no interest out there!

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#112

Post by jancsika » Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 1:46 PM UTC

csande17 wrote: post #11

Klonoar wrote: post #4

Please, please stop comparing built in platform webviews and alternatives like Sciter to Electron. You can hate on Electron all you want (I do too) but it's a totally different beast to almost all these other solutions. It's all fun and games until you realize that to get half the junk Electron throws you for free, you'll wind up building it yourself in these solutions.

Arguments like these are a lot more compelling when they include some specific features that are missing. Too often, "includes everything you need for free!" translates to "weighs down your binary with a hundred megabytes of functionality no one actually uses."

* PointerEvent for handling mouse, touch, multi-touch all with a single API

* decodeURIComponent and unescape because my backend sometimes sends ISO-8859-1 cruft and I don't want things to break because of those stupid edge cases

* web animations animate method isn't necessary but boy is it nice for a quick-and-dirty solution

* those insufferable "NS"-suffixed DOM methods because yes, I do need to create SVG elements programmatically now and then

The list goes on and on, running the gamut from "convenient kludge" to "the GUI might not work correctly without this."

The idea of the GUI developer putting up with more obstacles in their quest for a slick-looking UI because they'd like to leverage a slick-looking GUI-toolkit has got to be an anti-pattern.

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#113

Post by mysterydip » Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 1:49 PM UTC

c-smile wrote: post #110

Sciter's author here. What would be strategies in case of Kickstarter campaign will fail? In principle I can publish it for free as it is now but I definitely don't want it to be one more of abandon-ware projects that are open sourcing as the end of life. In general OS development is significantly more costly (for the author) as closed source one - for many reasons. So OS development needs steady stream of funding. S…

My first thought would be patreon or another of those services where people can sponsor monthly.

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#114

Post by c-smile » Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 1:54 PM UTC

mysterydip wrote: post #113

c-smile wrote: post #110

Sciter's author here. What would be strategies in case of Kickstarter campaign will fail? In principle I can publish it for free as it is now but I definitely don't want it to be one more of abandon-ware projects that are open sourcing as the end of life. In general OS development is significantly more costly (for the author) as closed source one - for many reasons. So OS development needs steady stream of funding. S…

My first thought would be patreon or another of those services where people can sponsor monthly.

How realistic is the patreon schema?

Say you would need to support 2-3 members team of highly professional software developers... Is patreon realistic for that?

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#115

Post by lioeters » Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 1:56 PM UTC

billylo wrote: post #106

franga2000 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? Bellard is behind this too? Genius is definitely the right word here!

Wow. I had no idea that both ffmpeg and qemu was two of the things Bellard created. https://smartbear.com/blog/test-and-monitor/fabrice-bellard-...

The wonders of Bellard never cease. Another discovery for me was that he wrote LZEXE in 1989~90 when he was 17. I remember this program from my childhood.

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#116

Post by c-smile » Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 1:56 PM UTC

luc4sdreyer wrote: post #71

Nitpick: > Note that transfer of 1GB of data produces 3kg of CO2. This is wrong, it's closer to 29 grams of CO2 for 1GB, on average. Of course it depends on the mix of power sources used. https://www.iea.org/commentaries/the-carbon-footprint-of-str... It doesn't change the point of the comparison, the smaller size is still good.

Data taken from : https://www.emergeinteractive.com/insights/detail/does-irres...

> And according to the Department of Energy the average US power plant expends 600 grams of carbon dioxide for every kWh generated. That means that transferring 1GB of data produces 3kg of CO2.

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#117

Post by k__ » Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

What do you think is the main reason these alternatives never caught on?

Everyone hates on Electron and there are a bunch of commercial and free alternatives, but somehow nobody really cares.

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#118

Post by mysterydip » Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

c-smile wrote: post #114

mysterydip wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first thought would be patreon or another of those services where people can sponsor monthly.

How realistic is the patreon schema? Say you would need to support 2-3 members team of highly professional software developers... Is patreon realistic for that?

Would depend on expenses and fanbase. Personally it seems more geared towards individuals and I've seen it do well for some. Not sure if any corporations sponsor people there or elsewhere. A lot of people like sponsoring at different tiers, like on kickstarter, which might be the key to success.

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#119

Post by c-smile » Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 2:07 PM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #82

red_admiral wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of project that I'd hope the Linux Foundation or similar could take an interest in financing too. Until, at least, all major modern OSes come with a built in scriptable headless browser engine, which would be a game-changer. Something-like-electron-or-sciter where you don't have to download the runtime for each individual application. Also, of course, not a walled garden: the windows "modern apps" st…

> Until, at least, all major modern OSes come with a built in scriptable headless browser engine One of the main advantages of shipping your own browser like Electron or SciterJS is that it's a fixed, stable target where you can be a lot more confident about browser compatibility because you're only supporting a single browser + version.

#2. Browsers are for browsing - desktop and mobile application UI requires far more than that.

Browsers are catching up of course but... Who would thought that the thing for reading pages will need access to your file system or make screenshots...

#3. UI engine must have natural and effective means to use native code - to be embeddable and extendable by hosting application.

In native app world you don't need WebAssembler for example - you can run native code you need natively.

Re: ElectronJS alternative: SciterJS – HTML/CSS/JS in 4.5 MB executable

#120

Post by ericpauley » Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 2:21 PM UTC

c-smile wrote: post #116

luc4sdreyer wrote: post #71

Nitpick: > Note that transfer of 1GB of data produces 3kg of CO2. This is wrong, it's closer to 29 grams of CO2 for 1GB, on average. Of course it depends on the mix of power sources used. https://www.iea.org/commentaries/the-carbon-footprint-of-str... It doesn't change the point of the comparison, the smaller size is still good.

Data taken from : https://www.emergeinteractive.com/insights/detail/does-irres... > And according to the Department of Energy the average US power plant expends 600 grams of carbon dioxide for every kWh generated. That means that transferring 1GB of data produces 3kg of CO2.

Are we to believe that it takes 5kWh to transfer 1GB of data? My media server runs under 500W, so could operate for over 10 hours before hitting this and download terabytes of data. Even other machines needed to facilitate the connection can't explain a 1000x discrepancy.

My guess is that the author confused kWh with Wh at some point.