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Transmutations observed from pressure cycling palladium

sciencedirect.com

31–40 of 73 posts

Re: Transmutations observed from pressure cycling palladium

#31
I just read through the paper.

TL;DR: They compared the metallurgy of two different samples, which IMHO totally invalidates the result.

The setup revolves primarily around "Johnson-Matthey purifiers", which are made by a manufacturer for industrial hydrogen gas purification. It isn't designed to have calibrated or consistent metallurgy for this kind of scientific experiment.

They're essentially a long Pd-Ag tube sealed in a stainless steel pressure vessel and also the tubes have supporting stainless steel springs inside them.

The experimenters had only two(!) of these filters, both sealed in the factory. They had to cut them open to access the Pd-Ag tubes inside for analysis.

A) This is a destructive test, so they had no way to run the experiment on one tube for longer and longer periods to demonstrate a steady increase in the contaminants.

B) They didn't take a control measurement of either tube before commencing the experiment.

c) They have no reason to assume that the metal purity of the tubes is anywhere near consistent enough to compare two different tubes, which are likely to have been manufactured on different dates from different metal sources and hence would not be consistent enough for this kind of experiment.

D) Individual tubes could also have had point-to-point variations, which they claim is the result, not the error! That's insane.

E) This is a long-running experiment (months) with many actions taken on the filters. Connections and disconnections of gas sources, high temperature cycling, flushing with various gases, etc... It's entirely conceivable that a contaminant got into the tubes.

Essentially, the only scientific way to run an experiment like this is to manufacture a tube yourself, using either very high purity metals or a very well characterised and homogeneous alloy. Then you'd have to take samples at multiple points along the tube and at several different times during the experiment. You'd also want to make sure that the entire experiment is housed in a metal that is similarly well characterised. At least a dozen such setups would need to be run in parallel, using the exact same setup except for gases used.

They did none of this. They simply noticed a filter got hot, cut it open, and assumed that what they measured was an increase relative to a different unused filter they had lying around.

This is garbage science.

Re: Transmutations observed from pressure cycling palladium

#32
post #19

The anomalous heating is very difficult to measure and it is not going to convince anyone. The new elements they got, are much more interesting. The problem is that: * Cooper and Zinc that are the parts of brass. * Iron, Chrome and Manganese that are common in stainless steel. So the most simple explanation is contamination from the surrounding vessel and plumbing. It is also very strange that they didn't get Cadmium…

Shouldn't there be some kind of radiation detectable if fusion did occur?

It could easily be that the radiation is well below the noise floor for background radiation or cosmic rays. The experiment doesn’t allow for selecting the type of radiation, and if the fusion is different from normal then the signature could be strange.

Detecting elements can be done for incredibly small amounts, but instead the problem is avoiding contamination.

Re: Transmutations observed from pressure cycling palladium

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is an Elsevier journal. Specifically, it is not one of the citation mill fake journals which will publish anything.

This paper does them no credit, though. Cold fusion hs associated with the crazy fringe, and for very good reasons.

As long as it's good work by credible scientists and filled with caveats about being a work in progress and that it may turn out to be nothing, I don't see the issue.

Re: Transmutations observed from pressure cycling palladium

#35
So one thing is was thinking about. The other day we saw a paper about room-temperature super conduction right? That field has a seen a long gradual progress.

But cold fusion "field" seems to be trying to go from nothing to everything in one step? Is there anyone who has been successful lowering the temperature required by even a single degree Celsius? And to make it even easier, let's include fusion that does not produce net energy.

Re: Transmutations observed from pressure cycling palladium

#36

The anomalous heating is very difficult to measure and it is not going to convince anyone. The new elements they got, are much more interesting. The problem is that: * Cooper and Zinc that are the parts of brass. * Iron, Chrome and Manganese that are common in stainless steel. So the most simple explanation is contamination from the surrounding vessel and plumbing. It is also very strange that they didn't get Cadmium…

The odds that cold fusion has been discovered are 0.

Lattice assisted nuclear reactions exist. They just don't generate usable amounts of power.

Re: Transmutations observed from pressure cycling palladium

#37
post #6

The experiment took place over several months which increases the chances of contamination.

And all the newly found elements are elements that you'd find in a gas regulator and are at levels close to detection limit. It's all so reminiscent of polywater.

Yes that would have been my initial thought as well

From the article:

"Examining the exposed Pd25Ag tube reveals a scattering of anomalies on the surface of the tube. Large areas of Cu were observed as well as an area of Zn separate from the Cu, which may indicate that no CueZn alloy is present, removing the possibility of brass contamination. "

Re: Transmutations observed from pressure cycling palladium

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's like trying to prove P = NP. Maybe it's technically possible, but no one in their right mind thinks it's going to happen.

As far as I can tell, the only reason cold fusion is even a thing is because someone published a paper that has never been reproduced. P=NP is at least possible: it has to be true or untrue. I'm not even sure if our current understand of physics even supports cold fusion. I guess maybe it does seeing as how I got downvoted? Presumably by amazing scientists who have developed cold fusion technology? Or at least have a…

Fwiw, P=NP could be independent from our current commonly used axioms; it doesn't have to be purely true or false.

Re: Transmutations observed from pressure cycling palladium

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. The transmuted elements could be viewed as contaminants while it'd be hard to explain away excess heat. There are so many sources of potential contamination. Random heat signatures not so much.

It's the opposite. Heat is notoriously difficult to measure accurately, especially when small amounts are being produced or if the experiment runs over a long time. Heat can also have many sources, some of which aren't expected by even highly experienced experimenters. For example, hydrogen has spin isomers , and the conversion of orthohydrogen into parahydrogen releases energy. Metals like palladium can also release…

Yeah but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Right now the easiest explanation is contamination, ordinary and easy to explain.

Re: Transmutations observed from pressure cycling palladium

#40

I just read through the paper. TL;DR: They compared the metallurgy of two different samples, which IMHO totally invalidates the result. The setup revolves primarily around "Johnson-Matthey purifiers", which are made by a manufacturer for industrial hydrogen gas purification. It isn't designed to have calibrated or consistent metallurgy for this kind of scientific experiment. They're essentially a long Pd-Ag tube seal…

Yep, this is crap, contaminants is the most likely and easiest explanation. This whole pressure to publish at any cost is killing science.
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