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Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

businessinsider.com

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Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#351

Post by ponker »

jojo2333 wrote: post #169
geerlingguy wrote: post #7

WFH saves money for the company, I just hope that some of the expensive (to the company) perks like prime real estate, free meals, exercise programs, etc. can be translated into at least a minimal budget per employee of: Internet connection reimbursement, annual budget for workspace improvements (ideally with a large initial budget, like $1000 or more for desk, monitor, chair, etc.), and possibly some other perks. Bu…

Employee salaries are by FAR the largest expense for these companies. Office rent is nothing in comparison. Companies will make decisions based on employee productivity, which IMO, means having people in an office.

Employee salaries are a huge expense because housing near San Francisco or New York City or wherever is expensive, so you have to pay those salaries to get people to sign up. If you can hire someone in Arkansas (who frankly would rather keep living there then move to SF) you can pay half the salary or less.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#352

Post by DetroitThrow »

serverholic wrote: post #340
ghaff wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. And the flip side is you have people who hate WFH (especially in the current situation) who liked the everyone in the office model really fear that, even absent 100% remote, the in-office experience will be much reduced with many of their co-workers coming in seldom. And meetings will all still be on Zoom. There are a lot of incentives to stake out positions. People don't really want to be fully remote at a comp…

So basically anti-WFH people are sad that they can't hold pro-WFH people hostage anymore.

>So basically anti-WFH people are sad that they can't hold pro-WFH people hostage anymore.

Ehh I think this comment is what the root comment was critisizing. I think a more empathetic lens is that you can either provide a remote-first or in-office-first experience for a team, and that at a larger office many or most teams being remote-first would detract from the office-first experience. I think it's short sighted to assume that having 200 people primarily in the office would be significantly different than 400 people, for example, but going from 400 to 10 certainly would.

The good thing is that after companies finish out corona, engineers will have more remote-first work options and still plenty of office-first options - I don't think there will be much in the way of hostage taking, but I'm sure some folks will be (rightfully) miffed if they joined a team for one experience and post-pandemic are getting a different one. They are also able to find a new job :)

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#353

Post by sushid »

andrenatalbr wrote: post #346

I work for a remote first company for years, and they are now doing the same thing, and I hate not having an office so I can sit and code alone with proper infrastructure in a quiet manner. The company is basically offloading the office costs to employees. I'd appreciate if they give me a 20k stipend to invest on an Air conditioner unit for my house. The heat this year is being brutal in the Bay Area.

I relented and got a portable unit for around $500. It's loud and nowhere as nice as an in-unit, but it's definitely been worth it IMO.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#354

Post by im3w1l »

derefr wrote: post #109
dhouston wrote: post #33

To be clear (if you only read the headline :)), not entirely remote. Solo work at home, collaborative work in "studios", basically reimagining the offices into collaborative/convening spaces that you go into from ~once/week to once a quarter depending on team/role. Remote-only cuts out the in-person experience entirely, which is problematic for building teams and culture; and ad hoc "WFH whenever you feel like it" ge…

> collaborative work in "studios", basically reimagining the offices into collaborative/convening spaces that you go into from ~once/week to once a quarter depending on team/role. I’m forgetting their name for them, but IBM has been doing this for decades now. They buy up office space in every major city, and then, rather than permanently stationing any teams there, essentially make all such spaces into private-acces…

If we continue the metaphor they should sell excess capacity to other companies with a spot price.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#355

Post by ghaff »

DetroitThrow wrote: post #352
serverholic wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically anti-WFH people are sad that they can't hold pro-WFH people hostage anymore.

>So basically anti-WFH people are sad that they can't hold pro-WFH people hostage anymore. Ehh I think this comment is what the root comment was critisizing. I think a more empathetic lens is that you can either provide a remote-first or in-office-first experience for a team, and that at a larger office many or most teams being remote-first would detract from the office-first experience. I think it's short sighted to…

I expect post-pandemic this will definitely be an early interview/discussion question. Or spelled out in a job posting. Which is fine. It certainly tends to be with respect to travel. People will certainly switch jobs to companies with preferences that match theirs and that's fine.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#356

Post by li4ick »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #27
geerlingguy wrote: post #7

WFH saves money for the company, I just hope that some of the expensive (to the company) perks like prime real estate, free meals, exercise programs, etc. can be translated into at least a minimal budget per employee of: Internet connection reimbursement, annual budget for workspace improvements (ideally with a large initial budget, like $1000 or more for desk, monitor, chair, etc.), and possibly some other perks. Bu…

Wouldn't it be easier to compensate for these costs via salary increases? Not everyone will have the same needs, and attempting to track everyone's expenses seems more complicated than necessary. Although, come to think of it, it might make sense to mark some amount of money as an "equipment stipend" or similar on paychecks. That way, it's clear to both parties what the funds are intended for, even if there's no actu…

We'd be lucky if the salaries stayed the same, because the trend seems to be to cheap out on us.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#357

Post by nullsense »

jarjoura wrote: post #160
dimator wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think no one is thinking past "but I'm more productive!", that's including employers and employees. Productivity is not the be-all end-all of a career! Human interaction (of any kind) is important, "wasting" time going to lunch with colleagues is important, serendipitous encounters at the coffee machine are important. I know for certain if my employer decides to go permanent remote, I'll be looking for another empl…

The first 2 months of lockdown, I was crazy productive, working till midnight every night. Then little by little I'm slowly finding it harder and harder to concentrate. My productivity has fallen enough that my manager has called it out. So, at this point the commute and my eating habits have been the only thing that has significantly improved from this WFH lifestyle.

Working until midnight will probably do that to you.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#358

Post by jordache »

dhouston wrote: post #33

To be clear (if you only read the headline :)), not entirely remote. Solo work at home, collaborative work in "studios", basically reimagining the offices into collaborative/convening spaces that you go into from ~once/week to once a quarter depending on team/role. Remote-only cuts out the in-person experience entirely, which is problematic for building teams and culture; and ad hoc "WFH whenever you feel like it" ge…

predominant WFH w/ ability to get together at the office seems like an excellent mixture of flexibility and adequate face time. Strict mode on either ends of the spectrum is non-ideal for most people I would assume.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#359

Post by throwaway98az8 »

hinkley wrote: post #342
throwaway98az8 wrote: post #179

Context: I was in the interview pipeline before/when this announced, so I've gotten some additional clarification on the logistics. I think this is strictly worse than providing employees with the option of where to work (office/remote/some WFH). Something missing in this announcement is that you still need to live in one of the main cities with offices (SF, Seattle, Austin, Dublin) in order to receive full pay. Movi…

> but you don't have a nice office with meals/snacks I was watching an interview recently, might have been buried in the middle of The Social Dilemma, where the speaker mentioned that this class of concierge service risks infantilizing people, and in particular in a time when code that young programmers author effects more and more of the population, that's dangerous. The implication was that we need people to grow u…

How is serving nice meals for lunch "infantilizing" people? I'm simply stating that this is a concrete benefit of employment at these companies. If they choose to move away from providing it, then they should adjust salaries to reflect that, otherwise candidates will join firms that do.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#360

Post by nullsense »

puranjay wrote: post #31

As someone who has worked from home for a decade, I predict a mental health apocalypse in the near future. Working from home permanently requires support infrastructure not everyone has access to. It also requires a different approach to work altogether which, again, not everyone is capable of adopting. If you have family, work from home is great. But if you're single, staying cooped up alone at home can be a disaste…

>If you have family, work from home is great. But if you're single, staying cooped up alone at home can be a disaster.

I like the break from my family. I didn't get it during WFH. Enjoying being back in the office now.

It's all just different strokes.

Having some companies that choose to go all in on remote gives those people who it suits them some options and for those of us who prefer WFO we know to avoid those companies.

It's polarizing, so I think it's good if companies kinda just go one way or the other.

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