Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH • Hacker News Board

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#301

Post by ashtonkem » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 9:38 PM UTC

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #289

ashtonkem wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like you, I am genuinely baffled by "WFH 4 days a week" arrangements (as compared to "WFH when you have errands that make it necessary", which is pretty common). If I have to come into the office 1 day a week, then I still have to foot the bill for a home office within driving range of the office, which sucks. I think at once a quarter you're starting to look at the ability to live on the other side of the country an…

It's like when you were in college, and you do assignments at home, and then get together with your study group, your TA, your professor, or your project buddies, in the computer clusters... See? Totally makes sense.

I don’t want my company to treat me like a college student.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#302

Post by ashtonkem » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 9:40 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #292

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #121

I guess it's not surprising but I am super disappointed by some of the comments here that show a total lack of empathy for people who aren't like you. I mean, you love working from home? Congrats, more power to you. But the number of comments stating that "only people who are good at office politics like going to the office", "only incompetent managers need to see you in person", "your co-workers aren't your friends"…

I agree that the comments you've cited are a bit ridiculous. But it's also important to acknowledge that pre-Covid, only a tiny fraction of jobs were remote at all. People who preferred remote work had very little choice in the matter. Our society assumes that commuting to work and sitting in a cubicle (or worse) is fitting for 99% of the work force. So what I mainly see here aren't the comments you cite, but a "ugh…

Pre pandemic people who preferred to work from home were regularly told that they weren’t actually working.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#303

Post by traek » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

rocqua wrote: post #296

choppaface wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am curious what sort of metrics and studies that Dropbox HR plans to do to assess this change. The current COVID-mandated WFH atmosphere is a lot different than how things were pre-COVID. In particular, there's the impact of children at home, and for ICs there's a special stigma (due to COVID) to support isolation. However, Dropbox's culture has always been uniquely supportive of IC independence during pre-COVID time…

What are "IC"s?

Individual Contributors (i.e. non-managers).

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#304

Post by ghaff » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

schoolornot wrote: post #295

syspec wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the Pinterest cancelled their lease, I forget how much but they had to pay 90M to do it, but they got out of it

I wonder why a landlord would even entertain such an offer. It's not uncommon for leases to be ~15 years. That is a hell of a risky move to think that you'll be ahead by offering a buyout with the hope of finding new tenants.

It's entirely possible it was in a contract.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#305

Post by ashtonkem » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 9:45 PM UTC

rtkwe wrote: post #191

aranelsurion wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this expectation really strange. It's like 'violence in games', if you refer to it everyone will nod, but how it became such a widely accepted fact is at best unclear. I'm sure some cases of it happened somewhere, there are some papers, and some appeal to authority is a given, but do we really know if WFH equals mental health issues en masse? For example, I wonder if: long commute, all the preparation before/a…

The thing mostly talked about is social isolation and it seems pretty straight forward that going from time in the office to the same time at home reduces social contact.

Or, it’s good that people will be forced to build social networks outside of their work, as it was a bad development that citizens began to depend heavily on work for meaning and connection.

Once the pandemic is over, of course.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#306

Post by specialist » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

bob33212 wrote: post #88

dhouston wrote: post #33

To be clear (if you only read the headline :)), not entirely remote. Solo work at home, collaborative work in "studios", basically reimagining the offices into collaborative/convening spaces that you go into from ~once/week to once a quarter depending on team/role. Remote-only cuts out the in-person experience entirely, which is problematic for building teams and culture; and ad hoc "WFH whenever you feel like it" ge…

I have done this for years. I have seen that some people don't like it for the following reasons. 1. They prefer a predictable schedule. 2. They don't like being at home ( family or workspace issues) 3. They are good at or enjoy office politics. 4. They are incompetent managers and they don't know how to manage engineers other than looking over shoulders and taking attendence.

"...looking over shoulders and taking attendence."

Being micromanaged remotely isn't much fun either. Like having a stalker. I'd get voice calls within minutes of a Skype status update. "Ah, no, everything's ok. Just grabbing lunch. Thanks for checking."

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#307

Post by Ensorceled » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

redisman wrote: post #106

Ensorceled wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are already seeing it. I think the increased polarization I am seeing this US election cycle and here in Canada is partly due to this effect.

There’s a whole industry pushing for polarization - I don’t think you can blame wfh for that

That's why I said "partly due to this effect". I think it makes us more susceptible to these efforts because we are not leaving our echo chambers.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#308

Post by ghaff » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 9:55 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #300

sib wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think coming in to the office 1x / week would let you live quite a bit further away than coming in 5x / week. At least for me, I could do a 60-90-minute drive to work 1 day per week, but would not want to 5 days.

But for what benefit? Will the office be full sized (forfeiting the cost savings to the business), or will teams have to negotiate which days they’re supposed to come in (forfeiting a large amount of the team building benefits). It just seems like a lot more work and hassle than being fully colocated or fully remote.

Teams schedule conference rooms. Even fully remote, teams will presumably get together physically a few times a year. Whether you're "fully remote" (and maybe have to fly to a get-together) or schedule weekly/biweekly office time will be a function of how a team/company wants to operate.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#309

Post by texasbigdata » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 10:00 PM UTC

ViViDboarder wrote: post #155

derefr wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> collaborative work in "studios", basically reimagining the offices into collaborative/convening spaces that you go into from ~once/week to once a quarter depending on team/role. I’m forgetting their name for them, but IBM has been doing this for decades now. They buy up office space in every major city, and then, rather than permanently stationing any teams there, essentially make all such spaces into private-acces…

IBM calls it hotelling. You can book a desk and check in at any office.

Sounds good. Who plugs in your monitors and other tools? :)

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#310

Post by phatfish » Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 10:02 PM UTC

Jaruzel wrote: post #127

leetcrew wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You know, coffee shops, restaurants, etc need to survive. in general, yeah, but do the shops and restaurants that exist to serve downtown / office park workers need to survive? I'm not convinced that WFH changes the net demand for these services. if these businesses move away from places people commute to and move into places where people actually live, I would consider that an improvement. I'd much rather spend my…

> if these businesses move away from places people commute to and move into places where people actually live, Here in the UK,I'm hoping this will happen. We've been suffering the 'death' of the local high street for years, and many local communities are non-existent because there are no longer local social hubs. For every coffee shop or pub closed in the centre of the cities, another could open in a rural area. We'd…

More people working from home maybe have a small impact for local restaurant/pubs etc. but i doubt it will be significant enough to revive somewhere with a "non-existent" local community.

The reason food/drink service does so well around offices is that there are 1000s of people in multi-floor offices in one area. All within 5-20mins walk of good places to go.

An average town may have more people, but they are spread over miles in houses or flats. Unless you live right in the town centre the convenience of going out to eat/drink is just not the same.

Popping out after work with friends (or just colleagues) is convenient for everyone as well. At home you have to round up your mates and all agree on a time.